THE GREAT TITLE REIGNS

The "joker" thing was not malicious, I apologize if it seemed so. Your post, however, illustrates my point on the thinking of US fans. "Jones would have never lost to Gonzalez". Betcha he would now! Darius never would have lost to Gonzalez in his prome either, but he did when he fought him.
Jones main reason for the loss to Tarver was that Tarver (like Liles) is the kind of fighter you put together to beat Jones and take advantage of all his flaws (yes, jones had flaws and several in fact). No doubt the dropping weight had an effect too.

Darius fought and beat several guys that were quality, ranked fighters and world champions that Jones never fought too. Leonzeer Barber, Gracciano Rochigianni (x2), and McCrory all match-up very favorably with Jones level of competition. Again, the only difference betweent he two fighters is the PERCEPTION most had that Jones was invincible or better. The REALITY of it is that he did not accomplish anything in the ring to conirm that. Its all perception and speculation.

Quote :

Again, the only difference between the two fighters is the PERCEPTION most had that Jones was invincible

And this is why I hated Jones and his hardcore fans.

I always felt Roy, in his prime, would have beaten ANYONE at 168 or 175. Beaten them badly, in fact. I don't know if it was the soul-scarring incident in Korea that turned him into 'Reluctant Roy', but that whole lineup of cops, postmen, schoolteachers, proctologists, and cops he fought when he should have been fighting Benn, Eubank, Michalczewski, etc made me sick to my effing stomach.

And HBO deserves a whole lot of blame for entering themselves into the contract from hell that let Roy do whatever he wanted.

boxinglawyer wrote:

The "joker" thing was not malicious, I apologize if it seemed so. Your post, however, illustrates my point on the thinking of US fans. "Jones would have never lost to Gonzalez". Betcha he would now! Darius never would have lost to Gonzalez in his prome either, but he did when he fought him.
Jones main reason for the loss to Tarver was that Tarver (like Liles) is the kind of fighter you put together to beat Jones and take advantage of all his flaws (yes, jones had flaws and several in fact). No doubt the dropping weight had an effect too.

Darius fought and beat several guys that were quality, ranked fighters and world champions that Jones never fought too. Leonzeer Barber, Gracciano Rochigianni (x2), and McCrory all match-up very favorably with Jones level of competition. Again, the only difference betweent he two fighters is the PERCEPTION most had that Jones was invincible or better. The REALITY of it is that he did not accomplish anything in the ring to conirm that. Its all perception and speculation.

i know that the joker thing wasnt malicious. i was joking too. i dont ever get mad at whatever anybody says so dont worry.

anyways, tarver really had nothing in his bag of tricks to beat jones in his prime. jones looked the worst that he had ever looked in the first tarver fight and i still had jones winning 116-112. a prime jones would have probably KO'd tarver. tarver doesnt swing enough to frustrated prime jones.

i have watched dariusz fight. he looked like a good solid fighter to me. i wanted that match up just like everybody else did at the time. jones did have flaws but he was an amazing fighter. theres no doubt about it. could dariusz have beaten jones? yes because of his style and punch. would he have beaten him? probably not because a prime jones was hard for anybody to hit.

Fair enough. I can envision Jones out-speeding DM for a decision like everyone else can too. However, I can also see that superior jab of DM's and the handspeed being enough to deliver the crippling power to the always fragile RJJ's chin and body more often than RJJ could take too.

Roy Jones had a real problem with Frankie Liles in the amateurs. He was TKO'd by Frankie and got a standing eight in another fight with him. (Jones went 2-1 vs Liles) Many, including Freddie Roach, claim that Jones avoided Frankie in the pros. Why does that matter? Because Tarver was a tall southpaw with power and a little handspeed like Liles. The biggest difference between the two is Tarver had a better chin, but not as much footspeed. I think Tarver, at ANY point in Jones career, was always going to be a HUGE problem stylistically for Jones. In boxing terms, Tarver had Jones number.

Hey Guys (Boxing Lawyer and Powerpuncher)

Just settle the argument by putting Roy and Darius in the middle of the 80's Light Heavyweights. When Spinks, Braxton, and Eddie Gregory were finished with them, it would also conclude the debate. Seriously speaking, both of you guys have made excellent points and I'm very happy to see BL on the board. I seem to learn something everytime he puts up a thread.

Hey, that 80's lightheavy divison was the best in history. The CONTENDERS of that age were better than anything DM or RJJ ever faced. Put them in there with Spinks, Gregory, Lopez, etc. and they would fight a grizzly bear to avoid those guys. They would have fallen all over themselves to fight each other then and counted themselves lucky to get an "easy"
fight.

KrazyHorseBennett wrote:

Quote :

Again, the only difference between the two fighters is the PERCEPTION most had that Jones was invincible

And this is why I hated Jones and his hardcore fans.

I always felt Roy, in his prime, would have beaten ANYONE at 168 or 175. Beaten them badly, in fact. I don't know if it was the soul-scarring incident in Korea that turned him into 'Reluctant Roy', but that whole lineup of cops, postmen, schoolteachers, proctologists, and cops he fought when he should have been fighting Benn, Eubank, Michalczewski, etc made me sick to my effing stomach.
And HBO deserves a whole lot of blame for entering themselves into the contract from hell that let Roy do whatever he wanted.

this

and it wasnt that he was just beating up cops and fireman, it was that he was acting like he was moving a fcking mountain while doing it and his followers believed the bullshit

I dont blame HBO for the contract they gave Jones. At the time, it seemed like a STELLAR move. Jones was an Olympic Media darling. He was a great talent. He had already defeated Bernard Hopkins and James Toney (who was actually who the contract was intended for, but Jones ruined that). There were a TON of natural fights out there for him that were blockbusters! HBO had visions of RJJ vs Benn, Eubank, Collins, Ried, Liles, Nunn, McClellan, Jackson, Toney II etc. etc. They had NO way of knowing that Jones was going to skip out of the major challenges and put it into cruise control for the next 7-8 years!
If Jones had made just 30% of those fights, HBO would have seen a big profit and got thier moneys worth from Jones. (Not to mention the fans would have gotten a REAL idea of how good Jones either was or was not). Who could have guessed that Jones would skip/dodge/duck/miss/avoid/whatever ALL of those fights?!

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this

and it wasnt that he was just beating up cops and fireman, it was that he was acting like he was moving a fcking mountain while doing it and his followers believed the bullshit[/quote]


and let's not forget how he treated John Ruiz in the promotion of their fight: Jones negotiated a guarantee of $10 million for himself and Ruiz got paid off the upside if the fight was profitable after paying Roy. So what does Roy do? he doesn't show up for the press conferences to help promote the fight. Just an arrogant selfish jerk.

I love how the new humble Roy emerged about the same time he was routinely being KTFO. I knew the "we don't make excuses" sentiment he displayed in the ring after being KO'd by Green wouldn't last.

ya canvas that was totaly bullshit with the RUiz thing and the Green thing

we dont make excuses, now call me tomorow and I will have a shitload of them

hahah what a chump

4445Frank wrote:

Hey Guys (Boxing Lawyer and Powerpuncher)

Just settle the argument by putting Roy and Darius in the middle of the 80's Light Heavyweights. When Spinks, Braxton, and Eddie Gregory were finished with them, it would also conclude the debate. Seriously speaking, both of you guys have made excellent points and I'm very happy to see BL on the board. I seem to learn something everytime he puts up a thread.

i personally think that jones and DM fair well in any era of light HWs. both of them would give most any fighter problems. spinks would definitely be the hardest match up for the two.

I think that Spinks and Charles overwhelm Jones with strength and power along with athleticism and skill.

BUT, the hardest match for Jones is Bob Foster. Imagine a bigger, longer, taller, much, much, much more powerful puncher, and more skilled fighter than Tarver. Jones would have chance to win if he got close to Foster. But he would have to risk that right hand to get past the jab and there is no way Jones could survive even ONE flush Foster punch. I dont think RJJ takes the risk and stay way way way back and is THRILLED to be standing at the end to lose a 149-136 type decision.

I don't know if anyone mentioned him or not, but Larry Holmes had a damn good HW title Reign before losing to Michael Spinks. Didn't Holmes have 20 sucessful title defenses before losing to Spinks?

boxinglawyer wrote:

I think that Spinks and Charles overwhelm Jones with strength and power along with athleticism and skill.

BUT, the hardest match for Jones is Bob Foster. Imagine a bigger, longer, taller, much, much, much more powerful puncher, and more skilled fighter than Tarver. Jones would have chance to win if he got close to Foster. But he would have to risk that right hand to get past the jab and there is no way Jones could survive even ONE flush Foster punch. I dont think RJJ takes the risk and stay way way way back and is THRILLED to be standing at the end to lose a 149-136 type decision.

i agree. i think that foster is probably the worst match up for jones because of his power. and plus he is somewhat tall and lanky.

Ring wrote:

I don't know if anyone mentioned him or not, but Larry Holmes had a damn good HW title Reign before losing to Michael Spinks. Didn't Holmes have 20 sucessful title defenses before losing to Spinks?

How the hell did I leave him out? D'oh!

powerpuncher wrote:

boxinglawyer wrote:

I think that Spinks and Charles overwhelm Jones with strength and power along with athleticism and skill.

BUT, the hardest match for Jones is Bob Foster. Imagine a bigger, longer, taller, much, much, much more powerful puncher, and more skilled fighter than Tarver. Jones would have chance to win if he got close to Foster. But he would have to risk that right hand to get past the jab and there is no way Jones could survive even ONE flush Foster punch. I dont think RJJ takes the risk and stay way way way back and is THRILLED to be standing at the end to lose a 149-136 type decision.

i agree. i think that foster is probably the worst match up for jones because of his power. and plus he is somewhat tall and lanky.

Foster is only 1/2 inch taller and an inch longer than Spinks. Two freakazoid giants.

love how ya included abe attell marble

crazy thing is how young he was when he won the title, then regained it

Abe Attell was an interesting character

roberto duran had a pretty long run at lightweight.