Excluding Ali and SR Robinson, who is the GOAT?

Birdofthad wrote:

Robinson owns Leonard sorry, Ray was at one point 120-1-1 at welter

your never going to convince me that a guy that fought 40 pro fights beats Robinson

Duran, Hearns, and Benitez were able to outbox Leonard at times and for long stretchs, no way he beats Robinson

Leonard wasnt even the best welter ever, hows he going to be the best fihgter ever?

just because he only had 40 pro fights isnt a good case to say that he couldnt beat robinson. i think that leonard has one of the best chances to beat robinson out of anyone that i can think of. leonard had the speed advantage (whether you agree or not its true). leonard was very very fast. robinson was tall but we know that leonard fought a great tall fighter tommy hearns and beat him, although hearns was winning the fight. im not saying that leonard would win but i would never say that he has no chance to win.

and you said that he isnt top 10 talent. if we are going by pure talent, he has to be top 10 IMO.

powerpuncher wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

Robinson owns Leonard sorry, Ray was at one point 120-1-1 at welter

your never going to convince me that a guy that fought 40 pro fights beats Robinson

Duran, Hearns, and Benitez were able to outbox Leonard at times and for long stretchs, no way he beats Robinson

Leonard wasnt even the best welter ever, hows he going to be the best fihgter ever?

just because he only had 40 pro fights isnt a good case to say that he couldnt beat robinson. i think that leonard has one of the best chances to beat robinson out of anyone that i can think of. leonard had the speed advantage (whether you agree or not its true). leonard was very very fast. robinson was tall but we know that leonard fought a great tall fighter tommy hearns and beat him, although hearns was winning the fight. im not saying that leonard would win but i would never say that he has no chance to win.

and you said that he isnt top 10 talent. if we are going by pure talent, he has to be top 10 IMO.

prety much disagree wtih everything you jsut said

sorry

the film you watch of sugar ray robinson was when he was in his mid 30s

still wanna try saying Leonard was faster?

robinson was faster with the hands hit extra hard can outbox ray also...had a better long range game etc etc.its a ko inside 8..look there in a entirely diffeernt league...

dmar5143 wrote:

robinson was faster with the hands hit extra hard can outbox ray also...had a better long range game etc etc.its a ko inside 8..look there in a entirely diffeernt league...

eggfuckingzachary

Hearns was able to keep Leonard on the outside and outbox him and it WASNT EVEN THOMMY'S FORTAY

robinson at mid 30s yes still had fast hands great boxing abilty etc etc..tommy hearns only resemblance to robinson was his height..ray l im my thoughts noo where near top 10..there are too many fighters that beat the whos who of boxing not just 4 guys..if you place him in the top 10 thats highly overateinbg him..a great fighter yes..thats it..

Henry Armstrong, he held three different weight championships at once and beat multiple Hall Of Famers.

Henry Armstrong because he was native american.

Henry Armstrong 24 title defenses in a year and a half

will never be matched

Birdofthad wrote:

Robinson owns Leonard sorry, Ray was at one point 120-1-1 at welter

your never going to convince me that a guy that fought 40 pro fights beats Robinson

Duran, Hearns, and Benitez were able to outbox Leonard at times and for long stretchs, no way he beats Robinson

Leonard wasnt even the best welter ever, hows he going to be the best fihgter ever?

First of all, Nobody is going to fight over a hundred fights in the modern day eras. I stated this in another post. Do you know any of the guys Robinson beat? It's about quality not quantity. He beat some good fighters, even HOFs but you don't just look at the record and say that's it. Quote some opponents Bird, and don't go on the net to do it. Duran outslugged Leonard in a great fight. He never outboxed him. Benitez, great as he was, never outboxed Leonard for a long stretch of their fight. Hearns, though he put up a good fight, if truth be told, was running for his life after the 6th and 7th rounds, both of which Leonard won by 10 - 8 scores. He knocked Hearns out of the ring twice in the 13th and should've had a 10-7 in that one, which would have made the fight even going into the 14th. It would not have mattered because Leonard stopped him anyway. By the way, can you name a 6,2 welterweight that Robinson fought that compared to Tommy Hearns? No. I have my issues with Leonard, but nobody owns Leonard at WW. Nobody. He fought according to the level of the game.

Armstrong is the consensus #3 for just about every reputable source

4445Frank wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

Robinson owns Leonard sorry, Ray was at one point 120-1-1 at welter

your never going to convince me that a guy that fought 40 pro fights beats Robinson

Duran, Hearns, and Benitez were able to outbox Leonard at times and for long stretchs, no way he beats Robinson

Leonard wasnt even the best welter ever, hows he going to be the best fihgter ever?

First of all, Nobody is going to fight over a hundred fights in the modern day eras. I stated this in another post. Do you know any of the guys Robinson beat? It's about quality not quantity. He beat some good fighters, even HOFs but you don't just look at the record and say that's it. Quote some opponents Bird, and don't go on the net to do it. Duran outslugged Leonard in a great fight. He never outboxed him. Benitez, great as he was, never outboxed Leonard for a long stretch of their fight. Hearns, though he put up a good fight, if truth be told, was running for his life after the 6th and 7th rounds, both of which Leonard won by 10 - 8 scores. He knocked Hearns out of the ring twice in the 13th and should've had a 10-7 in that one, which would have made the fight even going into the 14th. It would not have mattered because Leonard stopped him anyway. By the way, can you name a 6,2 welterweight that Robinson fought that compared to Tommy Hearns? No. I have my issues with Leonard, but nobody owns Leonard at WW. Nobody. He fought according to the level of the game.

James Toney and Foreman are in the 80s

wanna start over

wow what a joke your trying to say Robinson didnt fight good time fighters, your in for a kick in the pants

Jake LaMotta to start 6 times, Carmen Basillio numerous times, Gene Fullmer numerous times, Randy Turpin, Denny Moyer, Henry Armstrong, Ralph Dupas, Bobo Olson numerous times, Joey Maxim, Rocky Graziano, Kid Gavilan numerous times.

THATS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD

add in Servo, Fritzie Zivic, and Sammy Agnott

thats just some of the greats Robinson fought

your the one that wanted to compare competition

Robinson was kicking the shit out of Fullmers, Basillios, and going to war with Joey Maxims while Leonard was getting owned by Camachos and Terry Norris'

Either Greb or Armstrong.

Birdofthad wrote:

wow what a joke your trying to say Robinson didnt fight good time fighters, your in for a kick in the pants

Jake LaMotta to start 6 times, Carmen Basillio numerous times, Gene Fullmer numerous times, Randy Turpin, Denny Moyer, Henry Armstrong, Ralph Dupas, Bobo Olson numerous times, Joey Maxim, Rocky Graziano, Kid Gavilan numerous times.

THATS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD

Weird, I watched Raging Bull this afternoon.

powerpuncher wrote:

Deezy0814 wrote:

if this is a bad choice i'll take the criticism but how about Ray Leonard?

personally, i wouldnt say its a bad choice at all but im guessing that people will give you criticism for it. leonard is for sure in my top 10

He just didn't do enough. He beat what 4-5 HOFers? GREAT stuff.

But how does that hold up to guys who beat a dozen or more?

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Either Greb or Armstrong.

just think marble if Greb doesnt die in 1926 he honestly could have gone down as the greatest. or had a real strong case

even though he was 32 he still had alot left in the tank IMO

4445Frank wrote:

Ok, I won't argue that Leonard's the GOAT because I'll lose.But here's another point I don't think you guys can deny. Leonard would've been a great opponent for Robinson at welterweight (Not MW). It would've been a great fight and I think Leonard is a good, not certain, pick to win. Not that's not so hard to imagine. Dmar, Bird, what do ya say?

Ray Leonard at 147 is a handful for anybody who ever walked. But can you name a single advantage he'd take into a fight with Robinson?

Birdofthad wrote:

4445Frank wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

Robinson owns Leonard sorry, Ray was at one point 120-1-1 at welter

your never going to convince me that a guy that fought 40 pro fights beats Robinson

Duran, Hearns, and Benitez were able to outbox Leonard at times and for long stretchs, no way he beats Robinson

Leonard wasnt even the best welter ever, hows he going to be the best fihgter ever?

First of all, Nobody is going to fight over a hundred fights in the modern day eras. I stated this in another post. Do you know any of the guys Robinson beat? It's about quality not quantity. He beat some good fighters, even HOFs but you don't just look at the record and say that's it. Quote some opponents Bird, and don't go on the net to do it. Duran outslugged Leonard in a great fight. He never outboxed him. Benitez, great as he was, never outboxed Leonard for a long stretch of their fight. Hearns, though he put up a good fight, if truth be told, was running for his life after the 6th and 7th rounds, both of which Leonard won by 10 - 8 scores. He knocked Hearns out of the ring twice in the 13th and should've had a 10-7 in that one, which would have made the fight even going into the 14th. It would not have mattered because Leonard stopped him anyway. By the way, can you name a 6,2 welterweight that Robinson fought that compared to Tommy Hearns? No. I have my issues with Leonard, but nobody owns Leonard at WW. Nobody. He fought according to the level of the game.

James Toney and Foreman are in the 80s

wanna start over

??

marbleheadmaui wrote:

powerpuncher wrote:

Deezy0814 wrote:

if this is a bad choice i'll take the criticism but how about Ray Leonard?

personally, i wouldnt say its a bad choice at all but im guessing that people will give you criticism for it. leonard is for sure in my top 10

He just didn't do enough. He beat what 4-5 HOFers? GREAT stuff.

But how does that hold up to guys who beat a dozen or more?

its clear he didnt realize how many HOFers Robinson beat cause he went to the Leonard beat Benitez, Hearns, and Hagler but who did Robinson beat well

Foreman had over 80 fights, TOney over 75 and is still active

want to start over?

frank we cannot dismiss the fact that robinson fought so many times or greb in one year accomplished more than ray leanord did in his entire career..yes times are differnt today..fighters dont fight.period..folks can make up many an excuse saying if the fighters of the past fought today they would of fought less..perhaps thats right..would robinson or greb under up with a career of less than 50 fights..absolutrly not..then reverse that thinking and put ray and the rest of the guys in robbys or grebs era..do you realy think they could of servived there fight schudle and competrion..absolutely not..could leanord at 35 fought two wars with basilio..nope.ray l would of been destroyed at 35..he in his prime would have all he can handle with basilio..or fullmer.
both thoses guys put more heat than duran..a lot more..could rays c hin handled mickey walkers power expecialy if walker trained..nope..a guy named howard put him on his ass as well as a club fighting bum donnie lalonde..the hearns fight after 12 ray was losing..hearns ran out of gas then ray finished him..is robinson going to tire with the little amount of punches tommy threw..ray robinson fired away....leanard and robinson are in different leagues..duran was a greater fighter than fritzi zivic indeed..zivic would of gave ray hell..leanord would of won but ill guarentee you he would avoid a rematch..ones babe ruth the other guy is a yaz..there that far apart.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

4445Frank wrote:

Ok, I won't argue that Leonard's the GOAT because I'll lose.But here's another point I don't think you guys can deny. Leonard would've been a great opponent for Robinson at welterweight (Not MW). It would've been a great fight and I think Leonard is a good, not certain, pick to win. Not that's not so hard to imagine. Dmar, Bird, what do ya say?

Ray Leonard at 147 is a handful for anybody who ever walked. But can you name a single advantage he'd take into a fight with Robinson?

No. However, Leonard seemed to be as fast as humanly possible. He had great power and Cus stated that he was the best finisher he saw since Joe Louis. Marble, we're talking about a great fight here. Nobody leaves their money in their pockets if Leonard and Robinson are fighting on PPV.

bird what about the rest of there competion.the non hall of famers..ray robinson outshines him there...a few of thoses non hall of famers would give ray all he can handle and would beat benitz possibly hearns to