All-time Middleweight tournament.

15 rounds, no 3 knockdown rule. Double elimination tournament Random draw to determine a bye in event that it is needed. So, we need 16 middleweights. Who will they be? My suggestions below (in no particular order)

1. Marvin Hagler
2. Carlos Monzon
3. Ray Robinson
4. Bernard Hopkins
5. Gene Fullmer
6. Mickey Walker
7. Jake Lamotta
8. Stanley Ketchel
9. Harry Greb
10. Bob Fitzsimmons
11. Marcel Cerdan
12. Mike McCallum
13. Michael Nunn
14. James Toney
15. Emile Griffith
16. Nino Benvenuti

Who did I miss? Who should I replace? I considered Roy Jones, Ray Leonard, and Thomas Hearns but didnt think one or two fights warranted consideration.

Pretty good list.

I'd put Tony Zale and Charley Burley in place of Michael Nunn and Nino, but those are quibbles I think.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Pretty good list.

I'd put Tony Zale and Charley Burley in place of Michael Nunn and Nino, but those are quibbles I think.

I was trying to stick to world champions, but I think your call on Burley is spot on! I will let others decide who I should bump i his favor, but I think Nunn makes sense.

I considered Zale as well, but as much as I like him, I dont think he quite makes the grade based on resum'e.

Forgot to add, I think Nino might be among the more underrated champions in the divison. His record is amazing.

boxinglawyer wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Pretty good list.

I'd put Tony Zale and Charley Burley in place of Michael Nunn and Nino, but those are quibbles I think.

I was trying to stick to world champions, but I think your call on Burley is spot on! I will let others decide who I should bump i his favor, but I think Nunn makes sense.

I considered Zale as well, but as much as I like him, I dont think he quite makes the grade based on resum'e.

Like I said, these are quibbles. Nino especially and Nunn certainly have arguments.

I like the idea of Burley over Nunn

not saying he should be added cause he was mainly a welter but whats yalls thoughts on Don Curry

Birdofthad wrote:

I like the idea of Burley over Nunn

not saying he should be added cause he was mainly a welter but whats yalls thoughts on Don Curry

Don Curry? Peaked at welter, not much of note at middle. Another victim of the white powder.

KrazyHorseBennett wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

I like the idea of Burley over Nunn

not saying he should be added cause he was mainly a welter but whats yalls thoughts on Don Curry

Don Curry? Peaked at welter, not much of note at middle. Another victim of the white powder.

just wondered what your thoughts on him at welter were? Nose candy did alot of the 80s guys in

Birdofthad wrote:

KrazyHorseBennett wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

I like the idea of Burley over Nunn

not saying he should be added cause he was mainly a welter but whats yalls thoughts on Don Curry

Don Curry? Peaked at welter, not much of note at middle. Another victim of the white powder.

just wondered what your thoughts on him at welter were? Nose candy did alot of the 80s guys in

Shit, he looked like the goods. A sure-shot future great. Wicked counterpunching, great boxing base. I'm assuming he would have won the gold in 1980 if we hadn't boycotted.

I never thought he would have absolutely destroyed Milt McCrory the way he did. Started having issues making 147 and instead of listening to his body and moving on up, he decided to push it and paid for it in the Honeyghan fight. Hard to tell what the drug issues played leading up to that, but after the Honeyghan loss, then the McCallum loss, the wheels came completely off.

A real good example as to why a 'sure thing' is never a sure thing.

graet points

I am sure that 1980 team of Curry, Johnny Bumphus, Bernard Taylor, etc would have cleaned house

i think rodrigo valdez and tiger flowers are better than 3or 4 on that list as well as dick tiger..you can match this with that in a tourney and try to figure out and one gets eliminated etc etc and still i feel its not a desideing factor at all..like that computer thing matching the lightheavyweights..its just my thoughts only but i have my mind made up on the top ten in both divisions..now if each fighter were matched up and fought every fighter on that list and the same thing with the lightheavies i feel this..in the light heavies 2 or 3 of them would lose one or two fights..maybe another one or so may lose 3..there are some on that list that would win maybe 2 and several would lose 7 or 8 or more fights..the same goes for the middleweight division....so why not just leave it at that...

good call on tiger flowers dmar. other than that i think charles burley should be there like a couple other people already mentioned.

dmar5143 wrote:

i think rodrigo valdez and tiger flowers are better than 3or 4 on that list as well as dick tiger..you can match this with that in a tourney and try to figure out and one gets eliminated etc etc and still i feel its not a desideing factor at all..like that computer thing matching the lightheavyweights..its just my thoughts only but i have my mind made up on the top ten in both divisions..now if each fighter were matched up and fought every fighter on that list and the same thing with the lightheavies i feel this..in the light heavies 2 or 3 of them would lose one or two fights..maybe another one or so may lose 3..there are some on that list that would win maybe 2 and several would lose 7 or 8 or more fights..the same goes for the middleweight division....so why not just leave it at that...

Geeze, how'd I miss Dick Tiger?

Ok, so this is the updated list and first round. Let me know if I need to make any changes.

1. Marvin Hagler 9. Stanley Ketchel
2. Carlos Monzon 10. Bob Fitzsimmons
3. Ray Robinson 11. Nino Benvenuti
4. Harry Greb 12. Marcel Cerdan
5. Bernard Hopkins 13. Charley Burley
6. Mickey Walker 14. Emile Griffith
7. Gene Fullmer 15. Tony Zale
8. Jake Lamotta 16. Dick Tiger


Lets see who wins each bout. Give as much or as little detail as you care to.

I'd like to see how Mugabi would do in there. Too bad Hagler put an end to him. And I think he moved up to fight Hagler anyway.

boxinglawyer wrote:

Ok, so this is the updated list and first round. Let me know if I need to make any changes.

1. Marvin Hagler 9. Stanley Ketchel
2. Carlos Monzon 10. Bob Fitzsimmons
3. Ray Robinson 11. Nino Benvenuti
4. Harry Greb 12. Marcel Cerdan
5. Bernard Hopkins 13. Charley Burley
6. Mickey Walker 14. Emile Griffith
7. Gene Fullmer 15. Tony Zale
8. Jake Lamotta 16. Dick Tiger


Lets see who wins each bout. Give as much or as little detail as you care to.

Hagler over Tiger-As great as Tiger was, I think Hagler did everything just a little better. UD.
Monzon over Zale-I love Zale and he was a truly tough guy, but he wasn't upper echelon great. UD.
Robinson over Emile Griffith-A 25 year old Robinson, even giving up 5-8 pounds is going to be a very tough out. UD.
Greb over Burley-Greb just didn't lose to smaller guys, he just didn't. Burley is crafty and smart and talented, but he was a VERY deliberate fighter. Greb's frenetic activity gets it done. UD.
BHOP over Cerdan-Cerdan is a guy I just don't "get." Tough, strong, durable and athletic? Yup. But his comp just didn't measure up to those of the same era. BHOP by UD. This is a tough fight to call I think.
Mickey Walker over Benvenuti-Nino was slick, slick, slick, but he struggled with talented bangers and/or brawling types. Even though Walker is smaller I think he just swarms Nino. TKO late.
Bob Fitzsimmons over Gene Fulmer- I will grant this is an odd pick. The techniques of Fitz's time just don't measure up and the pacing was very different. This might be the only guy I'd pick Fitz over. Fulmer was awkward and tough but I'm not sure he's the guy to exploits Fitz. VERY close decision and as I said a bizarre pick on my part.
LaMotta over Ketchell-I will admit, I just don't get the love for Ketchell.\

Those are my guesses and I think the BHOP, Fitz and maybe LaMotta picks are sketchy.

are we doing 1 vs 16, 2 vs 15, etc? i thought that we were doing it straight across.

straighta across was the intention, but Ill do the 1 vs 16 route too.

powerpuncher wrote:

are we doing 1 vs 16, 2 vs 15, etc? i thought that we were doing it straight across.

Uh, oh. Did I screw up?

Where's the commish?

Sorry. Delete my outcomes if you wish and we'll do it straight across.

I need to make my wife a boxing fan. She has great organizational skills that would be rather helpful in situations like this.

most of thoses guys would destroy mugabi..

dmar5143 wrote:

most of thoses guys would destroy mugabi..

I don't doubt that. But they would take their lumps doing it.

i doubt they would take there lumps..i was a mugabi fan back in thoses days but realized his manny shortcomings.hes out of his element here..stanima wise and chin wise and abilty wise...several of these fighters in the past met many a john mugabi..ill go as far as saying artie levine kos him cold inside 5..

I also said he was a true junior middle. He was just a tough SOB and the beating he and Hagler gave to each other had a bit to do with Ray beating Marvelous.