So what do you think happens to Affliction after Trilogy?

One organization will make the UFC dishonest. One org would only work if there were an independent fighters union that the UFC had no control over.

Besides, I like watching different types of MMA. Joe, Mike and the grey-blue mat at the Mandalay Bay would get so old.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

One organization will make the UFC dishonest. One org would only work if there were an independent fighters union that the UFC had no control over.

Besides, I like watching different types of MMA. Joe, Mike and the grey-blue mat at the Mandalay Bay would get so old.

There will never be a fighter's union unless they are united under one banner.

Are the NBA, NFL, MLB, and NHL dishonest?

The NFL, NBA and MLB are in absolutely no way comparable to the UFC. I have had this discussion a thousand times on a thousand message boards with a thousand people.

Does Roger Goodell decide who plays in the super bowl? Does Bud Selig take players he has personal disagreements out of the history books or keep them out of the hall of fame? Does David Stern say players who leave the NBA for European play aren't NBA caliber anyway?

The UFC owns all the fighter contracts, and one entity is free to say who can and who can't fight in the UFC, regardless of fighting ability. In team sports, the teams are independent of each other and compete with each other. The Eagles are done with TO because of other issues? Awesome, Dallas and then Buffalo can sign him.

The situations are only comparable in that the UFC, like the NFL, NBA etc. are both sports and have their full names abbreviated with initials.
There are no other similarities at all. The business model of the UFC has as much in common with the NFL as a spider monkey's respiratory system has in common with an earth worm's digestive tract.

This isn't based on speculation. May I remind you UFC 100 was polluted with a WWE HW freakshow main event between two borderline top ten guys both with fake championships while the real HW contenders are fighting on the third and potentially final Affliction card to about 10% of the fanfare. Now try and imagine if there were no place where UFC refugees could fight? MMA would become more like wrestling than it ever has before. This could spell the end for MMA's growth as a legitimate sport. Fighting would be about who is the most marketable, who makes the most ppv dollars, who kisses Dana's ass.

Fuck that.


Besides, non-PPV MMA promotions like Strikeforce are required if we ever want to see the UFC ditch PPV and the joke of a network in Spike TV for something legitimate and not forever connected to Boxing/WWE.

No competition? Bye bye free cards. Everything on PPV for whatever the UFC wants to charge.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

The NFL, NBA and MLB are in absolutely no way comparable to the UFC. I have had this discussion a thousand times on a thousand message boards with a thousand people.

Does Roger Goodell decide who plays in the super bowl? Does Bud Selig take players he has personal disagreements out of the history books or keep them out of the hall of fame? Does David Stern say players who leave the NBA for European play aren't NBA caliber anyway?

The UFC owns all the fighter contracts, and one entity is free to say who can and who can't fight in the UFC, regardless of fighting ability. In team sports, the teams are independent of each other and compete with each other. The Eagles are done with TO because of other issues? Awesome, Dallas and then Buffalo can sign him.

The situations are only comparable in that the UFC, like the NFL, NBA etc. are both sports and have their full names abbreviated with initials.
There are no other similarities at all. The business model of the UFC has as much in common with the NFL as a spider monkey's respiratory system has in common with an earth worm's digestive tract.

This isn't based on speculation. May I remind you UFC 100 was polluted with a WWE HW freakshow main event between two borderline top ten guys both with fake championships while the real HW contenders are fighting on the third and potentially final Affliction card to about 10% of the fanfare. Now try and imagine if there were no place where UFC refugees could fight? MMA would become more like wrestling than it ever has before. This could spell the end for MMA's growth as a legitimate sport. Fighting would be about who is the most marketable, who makes the most ppv dollars, who kisses Dana's ass.

Fuck that.


Besides, non-PPV MMA promotions like Strikeforce are required if we ever want to see the UFC ditch PPV and the joke of a network in Spike TV for something legitimate and not forever connected to Boxing/WWE.

No competition? Bye bye free cards. Everything on PPV for whatever the UFC wants to charge.

Those organizations obviously aren't the exact same as the UFC, but to say they are not at all comparable is somewhere between hyperbole and retarded.

Obviously the UFC is an individual sport and the orgs I named asre team sports. Fine. Is the PGA dishonest?

Take everything I said but replace my NBA, NFL, etc. with PGA.

You are under the assumption that nothing will ever change with the way things are run. It simply is not so. Also, if the UFC was able to accomplish what I stated, it would rise in popularity to the point where it could very, very realistically become broadcast on mainstream TV, all or almost all for free. The PGA has tournaments every week on TV. No reason to think that the UFC couldn't do something similar. BUt, none of this has a chance to happen unless one organization rises to the top. You are absolutely wrong in thinking the UFC is more likely to get a good TV deal if they don't get better as an organization.

The argument you are proposing is one of stagnation.

ALSO IRONIC IS THAT YOU CALL BROCK A FREAKSHOW WHILE PRAISING JOSH BARNETT IN THE SAME SENTENCE.

MMA is becoming more like pro wrestling than ever before? Half of the UFC hall of fame were pro wrestlers.

Also, I addressed the differences in business model, stating that in order for such things to change they needed to dominate the market. What I am proposing is that UFC monopolization will allow for change.

LOL. The PGA is even less like the UFC than the NFL is. Hell we might as well start comparing the UFC to whatever federation controls darts or bowling if we're gonna do this. Not only does the PGA have no contracts with individual athletes like the an NFL team or the UFC does, but this isn't even a competative sport. You don't directly compete against an opponent. You simply try to get a ball in a hole in less tries than others. The PGA has all kinds of guarentees involving participation. Win the PGA championship and you're allowed to participate in any major for five years. Also, under PGA rules anyone can play in the tour provided they qualify. MMA has no such thing.

The PGA is also a respected, historic and long lasting organization for cultured members of society, not a cage fighting promotion ran by a foul mouthed college dropout with an unlimited supply of gambling money. Comparing the two sports is literally the dumbest fucking thing you could have done. Literally, nothing at all could be dumber. Shut that shit the fuck off right the fuck now kid. This isn't ESPN dude.

The UFC already is dishonest, is it not? How many times has Dana trashed Fedor, Frank and Tito in the media and claimed they were/are not great fighters?

How in your twisted fantasy world would that stop in a world where accountiability via options for fight fans are removed?

Check yourself immediately kid, this isn't espn, and being both insulting and incredibly ignorant with me simultaniously will not end well for you.

The premise is once there are no other options for fighters and fans the UFC will then be forced to change their entire business model? Oh really?


Nice logic man.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

The premise is once there are no other options for fighters and fans the UFC will then be forced to change their entire business model? Oh really?


Nice logic man.

No, the fighters being able to unionize will force the UFC to change.

The UFC gaining the world's best fighters and becoming mainstream is what will open up opportunities for the organization.

You seem to not understand that comparisons do not mean that things are literally the same. I am offering models that have multiple similarities and are also very successful. The UFC is the most successful MMA org, so I have no better MMA model to compare it to. Your self-righteous anger is hypocritical and narcissistic. Save it for someone who cares about your sterling internet discussion board record.

Those comparisons are terrible. What you don't understand is there can be almost nothing gained from comparing a game like golf and how it's structured to prize cage fighting.

The fighters could unionize just as easy now. Your hairbrained premise is based on poorly thought out logic designed only after you formulated your opinion ; "I wanna see my fav mma fighters all fight in da ufc"

I do to, but I am not about to argue that one MMA organization would be better for the sport in the face of all sanity and cognitive reasoning.

Fact is there is no model in sports anywhere that can address the unique issues prize fighting has. Fact is in your pretentious assbabble you have failed to address any of the real issues I have presented with your stupid ass theory.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Those comparisons are terrible. What you don't understand is there can be almost nothing gained from comparing a game like golf and how it's structured to prize cage fighting.

The fighters could unionize just as easy now. Your hairbrained premise is based on poorly thought out logic designed only after you formulated your opinion ; "I wanna see my fav mma fighters all fight in da ufc"

I do to, but I am not about to argue that one MMA organization would be better for the sport in the face of all sanity and cognitive reasoning.

Fact is there is no model in sports anywhere that can address the unique issues prize fighting has. Fact is in your pretentious assbabble you have failed to address any of the real issues I have presented with your stupid ass theory.

There were, indeed, points to each of my comparisons. I made each comparison to illustrate part of what I was saying, and you proceeded to project them to other arguments. I don't know why I would respond to straw man arguments that you set up that didn't address what I was saying. And you call me pretentious after quotes like "Check yourself immediately kid, this isn't espn, and being both insulting and incredibly ignorant with me simultaniously will not end well for you."

Nice.

You also failed to respond to what I said about your posts. Thus, the hypocritical part.

Knock the shit off dude. Nothing in any of your arguments deals with the unique issues the UFC/MMA has. There is nothing in the business models soccer or golf or football or rugby or competitive eating that deals with the problems one organization ran like the UFC would cause for fight fans. Less fights, less fighters, less options, more drama, more marketing.

And how would a fighters union fix things like the Lindland, Fedor, Barnett, Ortiz, Couture black-balling?

MMA is a sport that requires competition. If you are too lazy to follow multiple promotions, or think that MMA's situation is comparable to the goofyness of boxing, that is a you problem.

what are you guys argueing about?

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Knock the shit off dude. Nothing in any of your arguments deals with the unique issues the UFC/MMA has. There is nothing in the business models soccer or golf or football or rugby or competitive eating that deals with the problems one organization ran like the UFC would cause for fight fans. Less fights, less fighters, less options, more drama, more marketing.

And how would a fighters union fix things like the Lindland, Fedor, Barnett, Ortiz, Couture black-balling?

MMA is a sport that requires competition. If you are too lazy to follow multiple promotions, or think that MMA's situation is comparable to the goofyness of boxing, that is a you problem.

Absolutely disagree.

A union would absolutely fix many of the problems that fighters have. Fedor won't sign because of contract issues that would be non-existent if they were able to unionize (which, by the way, your assertion that it is just as easy and logical for them to unionize under multiple orgs instead of one is ludicrous at best). Couture and Ortiz both had money complaints. Both would have more leverage in negotiations if the fighters were unionized. Fighters would also be able to hammer out a percentage of the UFC revenue that would go to fighter contracts, as well as a set percentage of the PPV money on each card. It would also end or hurt the UFC's practice of holding one-sided contracts where they can cut a fighter whenever they want, regardless of the contract.

Anyway, we'll see after Affliction dies. If the UFC starts to suck ass, you're right. If they continue to flourish, I'm right.

His mom stole my bike with it's attached "DANA SUCKS" custom decal this morning leaving my house.

Mr. Coupon wrote:

Absolutely disagree.

A union would absolutely fix many of the problems that fighters have. Fedor won't sign because of contract issues that would be non-existent if they were able to unionize (which, by the way, your assertion that it is just as easy and logical for them to unionize under multiple orgs instead of one is ludicrous at best). Couture and Ortiz both had money complaints. Both would have more leverage in negotiations if the fighters were unionized. Fighters would also be able to hammer out a percentage of the UFC revenue that would go to fighter contracts, as well as a set percentage of the PPV money on each card. It would also end or hurt the UFC's practice of holding one-sided contracts where they can cut a fighter whenever they want, regardless of the contract.

Anyway, we'll see after Affliction dies. If the UFC starts to suck ass, you're right. If they continue to flourish, I'm right.

Couture's real problem was not money and he made that clear from the outset. Fedor wasn't offered a contract with terms that different from anyone else. Fighter unions probably wouldn't get anything done to please anyone involved there.

Anyway, I find it impossible to believe that in a vacuum of competition, the UFC would completely and utterly alter the very mentality they have toward the way they do business and have since Zuffa's inception. There are too many stars that the UFC keeps happy enough to never agree to a work stoppage or betray White. And if some fighters do "walk out"...? What happens then? They couldn't fight anywhere else since A. no where to fight. B. under contract with Zuffa. All the UFC would have to do is hold more reality shows to get any number of other hungry young fighters looking to get a name for themselves in front of the bulk of the PPV buying public and they would be fine without their striking fighters.

All the UFC would have to do is protect a few fighters at the top. Replace the Barn Cats and Maia's with new scabs.



Also, don't you like it the way it is now, where there are lots of high level MMA promotions? Sengoku, Dream, Strikeforce, Affliction, Bellator.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Mr. Coupon wrote:

Absolutely disagree.

A union would absolutely fix many of the problems that fighters have. Fedor won't sign because of contract issues that would be non-existent if they were able to unionize (which, by the way, your assertion that it is just as easy and logical for them to unionize under multiple orgs instead of one is ludicrous at best). Couture and Ortiz both had money complaints. Both would have more leverage in negotiations if the fighters were unionized. Fighters would also be able to hammer out a percentage of the UFC revenue that would go to fighter contracts, as well as a set percentage of the PPV money on each card. It would also end or hurt the UFC's practice of holding one-sided contracts where they can cut a fighter whenever they want, regardless of the contract.

Anyway, we'll see after Affliction dies. If the UFC starts to suck ass, you're right. If they continue to flourish, I'm right.

Couture's real problem was not money and he made that clear from the outset. Fedor wasn't offered a contract with terms that different from anyone else. Fighter unions probably wouldn't get anything done to please anyone involved there.

Anyway, I find it impossible to believe that in a vacuum of competition, the UFC would completely and utterly alter the very mentality they have toward the way they do business and have since Zuffa's inception. There are too many stars that the UFC keeps happy enough to never agree to a work stoppage or betray White. And if some fighters do "walk out"...? What happens then? They couldn't fight anywhere else since A. no where to fight. B. under contract with Zuffa. All the UFC would have to do is hold more reality shows to get any number of other hungry young fighters looking to get a name for themselves in front of the bulk of the PPV buying public and they would be fine without their striking fighters.

All the UFC would have to do is protect a few fighters at the top. Replace the Barn Cats and Maia's with new scabs.



Also, don't you like it the way it is now, where there are lots of high level MMA promotions? Sengoku, Dream, Strikeforce, Affliction, Bellator.

Fedor had a number of quoted problems that might have been able to have been resolved if he had any leverage. He wanted to be able to still fight sambo, which the UFC wouldn't let him do, and he didn't like that he could be cut at any time, but could not leave if he held the belt. These are the sort of things a union would greatly help with.

Your quote about the UFC keeping too many stars happy is exactly why a union would help! When a union strikes, all its members strike. Also, when the NHL went on strike, the players went and played in other organizations. They were still under contract.

And I love the current state of MMA. I just want it to keep getting better. It's hard for me to watch fights from the Japanese organizations, or the other orgs that charge you to watch mostly low-level competition. I think unification is the way to go. We obviously have non-provable ideological differences.

Your future is only possible if a lot of very big "what ifs" all happen in unison. Not willing to bank on such wild variables.

Personally, I've always been a big proponent for the single unified Org, maybe it could have like the WEC be a proving ground, I think it could work, and who really deep down doesn't want to see the best fighters in the World truely fight the best fighters in the World.

tolivendiewithLA wrote:

Personally, I've always been a big proponent for the single unified Org, maybe it could have like the WEC be a proving ground, I think it could work, and who really deep down doesn't want to see the best fighters in the World truely fight the best fighters in the World.

I'd be cool with that if the MMA landscape was stable enough to allow free and open co-promotion with any other group out there.



God the sport will be so different in 30 years.

My dream would be to have Two Huge orgs like PRIDE and UFC with the only other orgs being strictly feeder programs like the minors. Then at the end of every year the champs fight on NYE. That would be ideal to me. One of the main reasons fighter salaries can continue to go up over the past few years is because of outside competition. Money is a big deal because the more money in the sport the better and better athletes you will get. That is one main reason over the last few years we've seen some of the incredible athletes we do. So IMO competition is a big deal and the UFC still needs it for a couple years. The only thing is Japanese MMA and Strikeforce are the closest thing to legit competition and thats not much.

Like ur thinkin Combat on the first twop sentences, but to me fighters salaries are going up because of the growing popularity of the sport and more sponsorship deals, don't bring Affliction into it, cause their payouts are just retarded.

tolivendiewithLA wrote:

Like ur thinkin Combat on the first twop sentences, but to me fighters salaries are going up because of the growing popularity of the sport and more sponsorship deals, don't bring Affliction into it, cause their payouts are just retarded.

I mentioned Affliction because they were actually able to lure AA away at the time. things like that force the UFC to make it's contracts a little sweeter. Fighter salaries are definitely going up because of popularity and sponsorships no doubt about it but.......... If for example UFC was the only org right now they would hold all the cards. They wouldn't have to raise the salaries if they didn't want to because the fighters would have no choice. Thats why i say it's good to have companies like strikeforce and affliction. They may not be huge threats but to an extent they keep the UFC honest on fighter pay.

You're saying if they Monopolized MMA

Could you find statistics on what fighters were getting payed say 10 years ago to what they are getting now?

Even still though fighters in many cases are horribly underpayed today, but you've heard me say before that as time progresses and MMA continues to grow in popularity, I think we'll see top MMA fighters making money at least comparable to some of the top Boxers.

It's official, Affliction is as good as done