Mousasi Getting Upset

Show me all these examples of Mousasi sprawling on Olympic caliber wrestlers.

Ya, he doesn't have any, and hardly any fights against that type of fighter. Mo offers a different look and match up issues for him. I stand by that.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Show me all these examples of Mousasi sprawling on Olympic caliber wrestlers.

Ya, he doesn't have any, and hardly any fights against that type of fighter. Mo offers a different look and match up issues for him. I stand by that.

And mo is quite large. Will prob have a size/strength adv(gegard enjoyed both of these in his previous fights at 205). Combine that with his wrestling and it's a tough matchup.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Quote :

Who are these other European kickboxers that are especially weak?

After that are you saying Brazilian MT fighters are better against Greco? You need to work on that sentence structure.

Thanks teach, but what I was saying is MT from Brazil are not going to be as vulnerable in the clinch to takedowns as European kickboxers, much less American wrestler-strikers like Rampage, Rashad, Liddell, Couture(yes, look at his last ten fights) King Mo, Jon Jones, Keith Jardine, Dan Henderson ect.

Do you really need examples on European kickboxers weakness to takedowns farmer? This ain't your first rodeo partner.

Bisping doesn't have great wrestling, but he held his own vs Rashad and got beaten by Hendo & Hamill's stand up, not wrestling.

Cro Cop's sprawl is legendary.

Just through out a few high level fighters like Mousasi that are "Euro Kickerboxers" and can't handle wrestling.

High level wrestling works against anyone no matter if they're kickboxers from Europe or not. King Mo does offer that and in Mousasi's case he hasn't faced anyone like it so it should be interesting, but I'll stick with my original post and say Mo isn't going to do what Soko was able to. Mousasi wins this.

Mo is already at this stage in his carreer better then soko ever was. Mo is an elite wrestler soko was NEVER elite judo just a judo practitioner. Mo is bigger then Soko and stronger. Elite HWs are using King Mo to train with to practice takedown defense and wrestling so if that don't say something what does?

Daley, Hardy, Kongo, Mo Smith(close enough), Semmy Schilt, Yvel, Manhoef. I think you get the point.

or maybe not, no where did I say all European kickboxers are weak to takedowns, but that is a well known fact otherwise. Some exceptions don't negate the rule. You're smart enough to see past absolutes. Sometimes infighters and punchers beat outside boxers in boxing too, but match up issues exist there never the less.

Anyway, I picked Mousasi anyway, I was just giving a breakdown of the fight.

muayjitsu wrote:

Mo is already at this stage in his carreer better then soko ever was. Mo is an elite wrestler soko was NEVER elite judo just a judo practitioner. Mo is bigger then Soko and stronger. Elite HWs are using King Mo to train with to practice takedown defense and wrestling so if that don't say something what does?

Soko never competed in any Olympics, but he won gold at the 2001 US Open. He was elite in Judo.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Daley, Hardy, Kongo, Mo Smith(close enough), Semmy Schilt, Yvel, Manhoef. I think you get the point.

or maybe not, no where did I say all European kickboxers are weak to takedowns, but that is a well known fact otherwise. Some exceptions don't negate the rule. You're smart enough to see past absolutes. Sometimes infighters and punchers beat outside boxers in boxing too, but match up issues exist there never the less.

Anyway, I picked Mousasi anyway, I was just giving a breakdown of the fight.

Exactly there aren't absolutes. I think Mousasi proves the exception. Guess we'll have to see.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

muayjitsu wrote:

Mo is already at this stage in his carreer better then soko ever was. Mo is an elite wrestler soko was NEVER elite judo just a judo practitioner. Mo is bigger then Soko and stronger. Elite HWs are using King Mo to train with to practice takedown defense and wrestling so if that don't say something what does?

Soko never competed in any Olympics, but he won gold at the 2001 US Open. He was elite in Judo.

LOL oops maybe I should have wiki'd him. Never believed in soko myself. He just always seemed to break down mentally. I imagine he was a beast in training then just falls apart when he enters the arena. I still would take Mo's wrestling over Soko's Judo anyday. Wrestling has proven to be a better base overall for MMA anyway.

muayjitsu wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

muayjitsu wrote:

Mo is already at this stage in his carreer better then soko ever was. Mo is an elite wrestler soko was NEVER elite judo just a judo practitioner. Mo is bigger then Soko and stronger. Elite HWs are using King Mo to train with to practice takedown defense and wrestling so if that don't say something what does?

Soko never competed in any Olympics, but he won gold at the 2001 US Open. He was elite in Judo.

LOL oops maybe I should have wiki'd him. Never believed in soko myself. He just always seemed to break down mentally. I imagine he was a beast in training then just falls apart when he enters the arena. I still would take Mo's wrestling over Soko's Judo anyday. Wrestling has proven to be a better base overall for MMA anyway.

Agree on your last 2 points, but stylistically I think Soko was a good match up against Mousasi because of the advantage in the clinch. Mo on the other hand won't have that. He'll have to shoot in.

I don't know what kind of greco Mo has trained in his life. Greco is better for clinch takedowns in MMA than Judo is.

I agree that Greco is better in the clench. But I am not willing to say that style is better for MMA. I mean if you are an explosive fighter freestyle is very effective also and has been proven by fighters such as GSP, KOS, Tito, Coleman, Sherk, Cain, and many others to come. So to say soko's style was more effective then Mo's freestyle wrestling is nothing more then an assumption. Like wolf said Mousasi has never faced a wrestler of this caliber so until he does and wins he will remain unproven. If Mo can dictate where the fight takes place I see him winning this. Not only that Jacare took Mousasi down rather easily and Mousasi had to know thats where Jacare wanted the fight. I am not sold on him as much as everyone else on here.

I don't think anyone said greco was more effective than freestyle.

That was not directed at any of your comments wolf. At the end of farmer's last statement he said that "Mo will have to shoot in" as if that is a bad thing. It can be if you have a telegraphed or slow shot, but mo seems to know how to get his shot in.

Do we give Gegard the clinch advantage because Mo is not greco? Given his strength I'd think Mo would fare well in the clinch even if Greco is not his base.

However Gegard could certainly win this off his back.

Mo is still a huge question mark in terms of both his standup and his submission defense. Even if all goes well for him in terms of takedowns, Gegard will be dangerous throughout.

I think they have equal questions. How many elite powerful wrestlers has mousasi had on top of him? I agree that Mo has never faced anybody near the caliber of mousasi but wrestlers have proven to adapt to mma better and quicker. I have questions about both fighters but I am inclined to take the elite wrestler.

Huge misconception here that he trains with Fedor. Mousasi stated in an interview that he has trained with Fedor twice. Every other time they were supposed to something came up and they never trained with each other. Mousasi also stated that he stays in his home country to train and doesn't like to travel anywhere for that.

Mousasi trains all over the world. He was doing boxing with Freddie Roach in America for a while. Kickboxing at home with Hoost. Spent some time at red devil.

muayjitsu wrote:

I think they have equal questions. How many elite powerful wrestlers has mousasi had on top of him? I agree that Mo has never faced anybody near the caliber of mousasi but wrestlers have proven to adapt to mma better and quicker. I have questions about both fighters but I am inclined to take the elite wrestler.

WAY more question marks still left regarding Mo. Gegard has fought MUCH higher level of comp. Maybe not an elite wrestler, but in terms of being proven, Gegard has it by a mile.

Well you say Mousasi is proven but the thing you really need to look at is his match up and future match ups. The LHW division is full of wrestlers: Hendo, Rampage, Rashad, and even Bader. If he can not defeat Mo he has a long road ahead of him. This is a question that he really needs to answer. You may say well how is Mo's sub defense. I am sure he will be fine training with guys like werdum, the nogs, and mayhem.

[quote="JimboJones1"]

bigbeastcardinal12 wrote:

I can't wait until Mousasi shows him what fighting is all about. Gregard will finish it by early 2nd round if not the first.

haha ...I can't wait for this fight. Don't underestimate Lawal just because he is cocky. The funny thing is, he doesnt degrade his opponents, just boosts himself up, yet people hate him. All the while, guys like Diaz degrade their opponents constantly and get nothing but love from people. Anyway, a lot of people think Mousassi is going to destroy Lawal, and that won't happen. Similar to how people thought Marquardt would destroy Sonnen. I think most will be equally as shocked and disappointed.[/quote I was the one last year saying Nate was overrated and took heat for it. As for King Mo I just think he is cocky and hasn't done enough to act that way. If he had a couple of big wins then I wouldn't care. I just can't stand a self promoter who talks crap and hasn't earned the right. Diaz is a dirtbag and I never liked him either. I do respect him now though.