Walker vs Canseco is good for MMA.

captain organic wrote:

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a 47 yr old ex football player vs a 40 something ex baseball player and admitted steroid user would be "by far the biggest in MMA history?"

I just hope that if this fight does go down, it is not coupled with another circus type fight.

It would be the biggest fight in the sports history as far as the mainstream sporting world goes, ya most certainly.


Luke Thomas posted an article on bloodyelbow called "why blame walker when MMA is the freakshow itself" and it discussed how mainstream journalists view MMA, and how the Hershel Walker fight got him more phone calls and emails from real sports media in his local market, where he is trying to break into, than UFC 100 did.

People who look down on MMA aren't going to think anything worse of the sport, people who may casually like it arent going to think anything worse of the sport, but Walker vs Canseco would give the sports media of the world a real fight to become invested in emotionally.

Freakshows haven't hurt the sport yet at all. In fact they're one of the cheif reasons it is where it is now.

1. The UFC HW champion is a former pro wrestler(no one watches him because he won the title in college wrestling 10 years ago, Phil Davis on sportscenter?) and his title fight was against a 45 year old man half his size. Biggest PPV in UFC history.

2. Street Brawler Kimbo Slice himself is taking on a former NFL player with one fight on his resume, and Meathead is a whining weiner who sucks, and would probably lose to Walker. Kimbo is on four or five of the biggest MMA fights in history.

If Strikeforce made this fight, how different, in the public eye, would this be really? Especially to the so called "casual fan" who we are so concerned about alienating with these freakshows, and who doesn't know/give a shit about Brock's NCAA past or if Kimbo is taking this seriously.

MMA fans underestimate how despised Jose Canseco is vs how loved Walker is. Everyone, journalists, talking heads, sports writers, average joe fans who like either baseball or football who have never really watched the sport before, would be talking about the fight big time in the week leading up to it. And they wouldn't be discussiong "ultimate fighting" either, it would be MMA.

If the best in the world, Fedor, was also on the card, along with Cung Le, Manhoef, or some other action styled strikers along with Dan Henderson, this would still expose them to MMA of the highest quality. The image of Hershel Walker reigning down blows on a battered and bruised Jose Canseco would give everyone watching that warm, fuzzy feeling deep down inside. America to become invested in a sport, needs something to root for, and something to root against. This is just that fight.

Perhaps that would be enough to keep them coming back for more?

It draws eyes just like a Kimbo fight. That is the only good in it.

Farmer, this would do more than that, this would give people something to root for. People who have never seen MMA before would find themselves rooting for or against someone in this fight. That is very powerful.

Ehhh... I don't see Walker being popular and loved enough to have people really root for him. Jose is just not relevant enough.

naw dude, I can't go a week without hearing some ESPN radio host bashing him for whatever he is doing now.

Jose Canseco gets a lot of blame, rightly or wrongly, for the "steroid era".

Yes it make more media look at mma and more people will be watching....BUT.... the next day on "around the horn", "PTI", and "Sportscenter" it will not be good coverage of MMA it will be negative of how it is two over the hill other sports athletes can just walk into a MMA org and be main card fighters showing how the other REAL FIGHTERS are not real athletes. This IS NOT good for MMA in the long range of success due to the fact that it sets back all the REAL FIGHTERS as legitimate athletes but short term gets high ratings for a fight.

I think Wolf is right in stating that Jose is still relevant, but only slightly, and for all the wrong reasons. It's Walker's relevance that could be questioned.

Kimbo on the other hand was an in the moment sensation. Brock is a humoungous in his prime freak of nature, he was fresh off a highly televised stint in pro wrestling. Jose and Walker are long gone from their respective sports, granted they were huge in their primes, but that's more then a decade ago for one and 2 decades for the other.

So this goes nowhere near all time biggest fight in MMA history. Walker's first fight only drew lukewarm attention. Jose's? Japan or not, no one in the states knows about it. This fight get's middling attention from the media and the masses, and it's arguable wether this actually hurts or helps the sport.

This is all I ask from Strikeforce if this fight goes down. Put it on an otherwise stacked card. No newb's vs fatso's. And no chicks. I know the girl's are legit, they usually offer very entertaining fights, but I'd keep them far away from a card that contains Walker and Jose.

I'm 100% with Wolf on this one

Jose Canseco is a huge figure in sports and it has nothing to do with his career. He blew the whistle on steroids, and this fight would garner huge attention. It already has.

Sportscenter was reporting Jose looking for the fight an hour after he tweeted it. Walkers fight got a lot of press.

Muay is off base in his criticism though big time ;

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Yes it make more media look at mma and more people will be watching....BUT.... the next day on "around the horn", "PTI", and "Sportscenter" it will not be good coverage of MMA it will be negative of how it is two over the hill other sports athletes can just walk into a MMA org and be main card fighters showing how the other REAL FIGHTERS are not real athletes. This IS NOT good for MMA in the long range of success due to the fact that it sets back all the REAL FIGHTERS as legitimate athletes but short term gets high ratings for a fight.

1. PTI and ATH say dumb stuff about MMA all the time anway, but they wouldn't use this an an excuse to trash all MMA fighters, and even if they did, no one would buy into it. That is just make believe cynicism. I've never seen coverage to that extent other than on boxing forums, ever, and Kimbo and Lesnar have been fixtures for two years.

2. You sell MMA short, eyeballs are only good for the sport. With other good fighters on the card, anyone who tunes in is then exposed to the best in the world. You make it sound like sports fans are all unable to tell a charity exibition fight apart from a HW title tilt. Are NBA fans too stupid to tell T.O. and the celebrity all star game apart from the real All star game? MMA has enough merits on its own. Stop under estimating the sport.

MMA fans and this fruitcake persecution complex....my lawd.

Who gives a fuck what Tony Kornheiser says about MMA, no one under the age of 45 looks at that and sees anything other than an old, out of tough grandpa out of step with the times.

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So this goes nowhere near all time biggest fight in MMA history. Walker's first fight only drew lukewarm attention. Jose's? Japan or not, no one in the states knows about it. This fight get's middling attention from the media and the masses, and it's arguable wether this actually hurts or helps the sport.

wrong, and no idea why farmer bolded it. Those who are disagreeing with me much not watch a lot of ESPN or listen to ESPN radio much. You probably aren't a sports fan are you muay?

Jose Canseco's fight got reported on sports center and discussed on numerous shows and all over ESPN radio. The Walker fight got a great deal of coverage the week of the super bowl. Enough said. Walker was on three or four ESPN shows, the NFL network and Showtimes Inside the NFL.

A fight between an evil, key figurehead of the steroid era and a soft spoken Heisman winning hero would be huge to sports media figures, even if it is just a side show.





Take my advice men, and stop worrying so much about how random people view MMA. You'll lose a lot less sleep at night if you stop assuming everyone has to love MMA and everything has to be on the up and up.

Fightsports have always, since the beginning of the modern era, always existed with freakshows and novelty fights. Always. The sooner you accept it, the better.

Hell, most of you only got into MMA through a low brow pee eating reality show that features third rate bums and god awful fights for the most part.

I'm not worrying much about what the masses think. But I want to see SF give us quality fights, Jose vs Walker does not fight that bill, walker vs Nagy certainly did not fit that bill, Lashley vs Wes did not fit that bill. now Im not against freak show fights, but I don't want to be beat over the head with them.

Further, we already saw a quality fight squeezed to an ill fated internet appearance, and there are a host of quality fighters who are sitting idle in the SF ranks. Filling a card with fights like this furthers the lack of action for a number of good young SF fighters.

Yo Joe Riggs and Jay Hieron wasn't that big of a fucking deal. Jees lueeez

Strikeforce has to establish their brand, and break through the "ultimate fighting" label the sport has.

Who cares if Strikeforce is only concerned with quality fights if no one besides hardcores watches them or cares about them? I want Strikeforce to build themselves bigger and bigger. There is no risk they'd suddenly stop signing guys like Fedor and Hendo.

And Lashley vs Simms wasnt that bad, be real.

It takes legitimacy away from the sport, plain and simple.

SF's way of establishing themselves would be too put on freakshows? great plan

Also the Simms fight was a joke, he looked like he came in after 5 months of no training and 300 boxes of twinkies, not to mention Walker vs. Nudge.

Your delusional Wolf! Yes I am a sports fan but I feel no need to prove that nor does it have anything to do with this discussion. I also have faith in MMA if enough eyes get on it the sprt will grow even more. But NOT with this method why would anybody be like yea i wanna watch boxing because they saw celebrity boxing its a freakshow and thats all people get from it. It won't hurt mma as much as it will hurt strikeforce. How do you think fighters will feel seeing these wannabe fighters get their TV time and take away from their performance because people will be focusing on this freakshow. There are better ways to get the mainstream to come to our sport. Chuck is well known in the mainstream and attracts fans from there, even tito does, GSP is on his way, and now with Rampage in a legit mainstream movie he will bring in even more fans. We can use the talent we already have and let their hardwork already invested into this sport get payoffs.

i just threw up in my mouth

I wouldent say it takes legitimacy away from the sport. It's not like Walker is going to ever fight Fedor or even a top 50 HW. Two guys just fighting in a cage may be a side attraction but it's pretty harmless. Pride did it all the time and it did not really bother me. As long as they don't fix the fight. Fixing is what takes legitimacy away from the sport(Kimbo is EliteXC)

I just dont want to have this be the main event

Fucking please. As if TUF and sending a 1-1 pro wrestler to fight a near 50 year old man is any better?

It doesn't take legitimacy away from the sport as long as it is clear these are not the best athletes in the sport and it has no significance.

Honestly, you really think this fight would damage it? I'd like to see a scrap of evidence to prove that it would. One scrap. MMA haters would hate MMA regardless.

It is a 100% myth that fights like these damage the sport in any way shape or form.

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How do you think fighters will feel seeing these wannabe fighters get their TV time and take away from their performance because people will be focusing on this freakshow.

You're out of your mind. Any and all of Strikeforce's fighters would want to be on a card with a fight like this so they could actually get some sponsorship dollars. You really have no idea about the fight game at all do you? As if someone is going to under perform because Jose is on the card? what the fuck are you talking about?

As if Robbie Lawler regrets all the cards he fought where Kimbo fought right?

Not saying they would under perform but that their performance will not be what is being talked about just how Jose C. and Walker wasted 15 min of everyones life. And if you watch some of the post fight interviews( I know YOU think Heiron and Riggs are irrelevant but they are WAY more relevant then Walker) they are not happy to lose TV time to some fighter with a couple wins in his career and some 40 something YO. Most fighters keep their mouths shut because they dont want to stir anything up. Lawler usually doesnt say much anyway YOU obviously dont watch none of his interviews most of his answers are i dont care, who knows, and when is this interview over. If you read my last post i said it doesnt hurt MMA as much as it hurts strikeforce. And TUF has produced Diego Sanchez, Kenny Florian, Rashad, Forrest, Kos, Stevenson, and Mike Swick. Yes they focus on the wrong things during this show but at least it is promoting the fighters themselves it is their choice if they want to act like morons. Brock is not normal we all know that and he was 2-1 when he faced randy but who cares randy is no joke for his age no where near a freak show.

I think this would lower the sport. Granted it would get millions of people to watch it, but I do not think it would garner many fans. Our sport needs to 'grind' its way to victory, not overwhelm the masses.

MMA is great enough that no matter how we get them in the building, once their they'll play along.

Like I said, this would be a fight a lot of non-MMA fans would follow because of the way people hate Jose. Once they've rooted for an MMA match either way, they've invested themselves in the sport.

That is the crux of my argument.

That would offset the mariginally small number of people that would say "hey two retired athletes are fighting, this whole sport is a joke" if anyone would even say that at this point.

Eh, I'll pass on this one, believe what you want Wolfy