Bad night for 185.

Maia and Miller both looked very one dimensional, Maia looked very undeserving of the praise he was once afforded. Nate, a guy who many thought was coming into his own as an elite level fighter gets controlled from start to finish.

Is sonnen an elite level guy who is now going to challenge Spider? Im not buying it.

Me either. I think that division needs Rashad!

How did Maia look one dimensional? He out kickboxed a solid top 15 middleweight in a fight where he was specifically trying to work his stand up.

Chael being a wrestler with hard to stop takedowns actually offers more of a challenge than Nate probably would.

Not the greatest thread here.

Yup^^^

Terrible night for Nate I dont know about the whole division though.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

How did Maia look one dimensional? He out kickboxed a solid top 15 middleweight in a fight where he was specifically trying to work his stand up.

Chael being a wrestler with hard to stop takedowns actually offers more of a challenge than Nate probably would.

Not the greatest thread here.

Out kickboxing a guy who does not have good standup is not a great acheivement. The crowd booed the fight. As did I.

I was wrong on Chael here, so I can't be too hard going fwd, so Ill simply pick Anderson via KO if and when then fight.

timthebim wrote:

Terrible night for Nate I dont know about the whole division though.

I think with the loss the division looks more and more like Spider, and then everyone else. I thought Nate was carving out a niche as a good 2nd level guy. But that performance sticks him with the rest of the pack far behind spider.

No one picked Miller to win that fight, but no one picked Maia to win that fight if it stayed standing. He showed vastly improved striking in that fight.

How did he look one dimensional?

Nate has nothing for Anderson, but strong wrestlers are the one match up people see Anderson having trouble in based on Lutter mounting him and Dan Henderson winning the first round.

Yeah I don't know how you can say Maia looked one dimensional in that fight. Obviously everyone knows how great he is on the ground and last night he showcased his improved standup with didn't look half bad. If anything I'd say he was impressive last night. Miller's the one that looked bad.

Sonnen looked great, I'd say it's great for the MW division, a new challenger to the champ...and it won't even be a rematch!

Bigs03 wrote:

Yeah I don't know how you can say Maia looked one dimensional in that fight. Obviously everyone knows how great he is on the ground and last night he showcased his improved standup with didn't look half bad. If anything I'd say he was impressive last night. Miller's the one that looked bad.

Sonnen looked great, I'd say it's great for the MW division, a new challenger to the champ...and it won't even be a rematch!

How can Maia look good when the guy he is fighting also has limited standup and you agree that Miller looked bad?

Im still trying to deal with this Sonnen business. Im defineatley raining on the parade more then I should.

When we did the overrated-underrated thread that LA made up, I think I was the only one who put Sonnen in the underrated category. I want my cookie!

captain organic wrote:

Bigs03 wrote:

Yeah I don't know how you can say Maia looked one dimensional in that fight. Obviously everyone knows how great he is on the ground and last night he showcased his improved standup with didn't look half bad. If anything I'd say he was impressive last night. Miller's the one that looked bad.

Sonnen looked great, I'd say it's great for the MW division, a new challenger to the champ...and it won't even be a rematch!

How can Maia look good when the guy he is fighting also has limited standup and you agree that Miller looked bad?

Im still trying to deal with this Sonnen business. Im defineatley raining on the parade more then I should.

Would you not say that Maia's standup looked improved? If your answer is yes then how can you say he didn't look good?

Because Maia made Miller look bad.

Bigs03 wrote:

captain organic wrote:

Bigs03 wrote:

Yeah I don't know how you can say Maia looked one dimensional in that fight. Obviously everyone knows how great he is on the ground and last night he showcased his improved standup with didn't look half bad. If anything I'd say he was impressive last night. Miller's the one that looked bad.

Sonnen looked great, I'd say it's great for the MW division, a new challenger to the champ...and it won't even be a rematch!

How can Maia look good when the guy he is fighting also has limited standup and you agree that Miller looked bad?

Im still trying to deal with this Sonnen business. Im defineatley raining on the parade more then I should.

Would you not say that Maia's standup looked improved? If your answer is yes then how can you say he didn't look good?

If a guy improves his standup from below average to slightly below average. that meets the criteria of showing improvement and still not looking good.

And I don't know if his standup was improved, Dan Miller has very limted standup as well.

I don't know how a BJJ practitioner winning a kickboxing match against a pretty highly ranked opponent is being one dimensional? Maia's standup while certainly not great definitely looked improved

Below "average", define this average at 185?

captian, sometimes it's better to admit you're wrong than continuing to bury yourself deeper inside a losing argument.

If anything the hopes for GSP moving up were dashed. Throwing Nate around the gym all of a sudden isn't that impressive now is it?

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Below "average", define this average at 185?

captian, sometimes it's better to admit you're wrong than continuing to bury yourself deeper inside a losing argument.

If anything the hopes for GSP moving up were dashed. Throwing Nate around the gym all of a sudden isn't that impressive now is it?

Why would the hopes for GSP moving up be dashed? GSP's control and MMA wrestling is just as good as Sonnen's AND GSP has some standup skills to go with it. I still have high hopes for GSP at 185.

Ya maybe dashed isn't the best word, but Nate may not be the best measuring stick for wrestling success at the weight.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Below "average", define this average at 185?

captian, sometimes it's better to admit you're wrong than continuing to bury yourself deeper inside a losing argument.

If anything the hopes for GSP moving up were dashed. Throwing Nate around the gym all of a sudden isn't that impressive now is it?

admit Im wrong regarding what? Maia's unimpressive performance? Nah im sticking to that. i don't always agree with the boo's of the crowd, but I thought they were warranted here.

On Chael? Im trying to accept that he's not a chump.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Ya maybe dashed isn't the best word, but Nate may not be the best measuring stick for wrestling success at the weight.

I for one am certainly questioning the level of wrestling that Nate see's in training. He looked completely unprepared for what Sonnen brought to the table.

Maia is supposed to be an elite striker over night and anything less is an unimpressive performance? Ok check.

So are QBs busts when they don't throw 30 TDs and have 5 INTs their first year in the league?

Maia's standup looked significantly better, and that is the reality. Because it didn't look like Anderson's or Nate's is no reason to fault him.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Maia is supposed to be an elite striker over night and anything less is an unimpressive performance? Ok check.

So are QBs busts when they don't throw 30 TDs and have 5 INTs their first year in the league?

Maia's standup looked significantly better, and that is the reality. Because it didn't look like Anderson's or Nate's is no reason to fault him.

Maia striking was about 10 notches below elite level. And this was against a guy who also doesn't have good standup. Did he look better in this fight then he did when got ko'd in about 20 secs vs nate? yes, does that mean I need to be impressed? no.

Quote :

I need to be impressed?

Ok GSP. Whatev boi.

I look at Maia's fight last night as a great thing for him. He got to do a lot of standup work in a real fight situation, which is important for his development as a fighter. You can't replicate that kind of fighting in a gym. Maia did some great work, and it should help him in the long run on his new run for the title. I think Maia and Sonnen should rematch for the next title shot. I'll take Maia big time. Sonnen's a liability on the ground with good submission guys. Hell, I think of Jeremy Horn's 3,000 wins, like 50 or 60 of them were to Chael Sonnen.

It's hard to defend Sonnen's sub defense given he has six or seven sub losses, but that is the price he pays with an active top game in submission experts' guards. I'd imagine he is a lot better now than he was four years ago when a lot of those were racked up.