Machida vs. Bader set for UFC on Fox IV

Wolfgangsta wrote:

OU wrote:

Machida is 0-2 vs Shogun. Not sure what article you were reading. Also you can post the Rashad face all you want, doesn't change the fact that Evans could be favored in a rematch. I remember Randy knocked out Chuck the first time around. What happened the next time?

I'm looking here, and Machida is 1 and 1 with Rua according all these articles actually...odd. He only did so well in that first fight because of the leg kicks. How many leg kicks has Shogun thrown since? Even a BBW tapout douchefan could spit this kind of MMA knowledge. Machida would trash Shogun in a third fight. Bank on it.

Immediate rematch was given for a reason. Overwhelming majority of people who watched that fight scored it for Shogun. I thought you threw away your Machida fan card? Did you purchase a new one?

If you remember, I argued the case for Machida in the first fight. But anyway, the records are 1 and 1. I know why the immediate rematch was given. I know it was ultra tight. The point is, in reality they are 1 and 1. And the first fight was only so close because of the leg kicks. Something that Shogun apparently cannot throw with ease anymore. This means a third fight will be very different. Machida isn't going to charge in trading like in the second fight. Believe that. When the fuck did I disown Machida? The Dragon is still one of my favorite fighters and always will be.

My official record is determined from my own account. Shogun is 2-0 against Machida. The MMA judges can see it., or not, however they please. They do not make the determination for me. Nothing about the way Machida fights now or fought Shogun in their previous encounters or how Shogun has fought since then makes me think Machida would beat him in a third fight.

Well, in reality they are 1-1, so a rubber fight has intrigue for me. Especially cause Machida will win it.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Well, in reality they are 1-1, so a rubber fight has intrigue for me. Especially cause Machida will win it.

According to you Machida is miles ahead of Shogun and on another level. Blinded by fandom.

OU wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Well, in reality they are 1-1, so a rubber fight has intrigue for me. Especially cause Machida will win it.

According to you Machida is miles ahead of Shogun and on another level. Blinded by fandom.

Do you think Shogun will either

A. regrow new knees and win the way he won the first fight he actually lost on the cards.
B. change up his game plan enough and figure out Machida and beat him an entirely different way without kicks.
C. will win because Machida will slug it out with him again.
D. lose because he cannot throw kicks, and Lyoto knows this, and will fight him like he does any one dimensional striker.


I don't see a path to victory for Shogun here. He threw no kicks against Jones, Forrest or Hendo. His bounce and speed his dramatically reduced. He isn't the same fighter physically he was when he fought Machida or Chuck, or when he fought in Pride. I think the Shogun that fought Chuck/Machida could have hung with and possibly beaten Jon Jones. But that guy is gone. It is an incredible credit to Rua that he was able to KO Forrest and have such an awesome fight with Henderson without being a complete fighter, but I don't see him having success in a third fight with Machida.

Why do you?

What has been so impressive about Machida of late except for blasting the much slower, older Couture with a flying crane? Shogun has showed he still has a ton of heart, a chin and knockout power. I really don't know which fighters you are watching. Nothing I have seen since the their last matchup would suggest Machida is the superior fighter. Hendo couldn't put Shogun out, Machida doesn't have what it takes. But we know Shogun has the power and ability to put Machida out. We have seen it.

Machida's first round against Jones, and last round against Page showed he is still very dangerous, quick, and able to bounce in and out and counter. This tells me he still has a speed advantage. I think perhaps he got too wild with Jon Jones in the second round, and got clipped. Which lead to him getting finished by an atomic level stud. But compare the first rounds of Jones vs Shogun with the first round vs Machida. I don't think Hendo could land on Machida either. I think Shogun has lost the speed that made him for a short while the fastest and most technical LHW probably ever.

Did you see how fucking quick he was against Machida both fights, or Chuck? You practically have to watch the KO on Chuck in slow motion to appreciate it correctly. Hendo's chin is very available and Rua couldn't find it at all. Fedor and Feijao got to him. Rua didn't. If not for Hendo literally gassing himself out blasting away on his face, Rua wouldn't have made it into a close fight late.

And who knows how much that war has further taken out of him? He has taken incredible punishment in his last two losses. Fighters can't take that kind of repeated, incredible damage and be the same for very long.

That said, I kind of think Machida is skating on chin-questions himself in places like this these days. Jones hurt him with a punch I believe, and that set up the rest of the round and finish and he doesn't have big power in his hands. Machida ended up going out brutally in that fight too, so he also has two bad losses which could impact his durability. The Shogun loss clearly effected him and made him fight like a chinny fighter against Rampage for the first two rounds. Still, he hasn't taken nearly the total punishment recently, or in his career that Shogun has. To his brain or his knees.

I see a three round fight being easily won via leg kicks and Machida counters, probably in a classic Machida decision that has some fans bitching on the internet. I donno if my boy would try too too hard for the finish after being punched out by him once, and being hurt and finished by Jones.

How you see it going?

I would be rooting hard for Shogun, but I don't see much of a reason to believe he would beat Machida a third time. I don't even think its debatable. He's degenerated into a plodding slugger, its not that hard to see

bobbitt15 wrote:

I would be rooting hard for Shogun, but I don't see much of a reason to believe he would beat Machida a third time. I don't even think its debatable. He's degenerated into a plodding slugger, its not that hard to see

Yea, I don't get it either dude. But then again, maybe our fandom has blinded us to all the leg kicks and speed of his last few fights.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Hendo's chin is very available and Rua couldn't find it at all. Fedor and Feijao got to him. Rua didn't. If not for Hendo literally gassing himself out blasting away on his face, Rua wouldn't have made it into a close fight late.

Maybe the play by play you read on the fight didn't mention that Hendo got staggered by a punch in the first round and dove for a takedown that he didn't get immediately. But speaking of Fedor and Feijao "finding" Hendo's chin, where did that get them? Shogun took all Dan had to give and kept coming while neither of the other two were so lucky.

Ludo wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Hendo's chin is very available and Rua couldn't find it at all. Fedor and Feijao got to him. Rua didn't. If not for Hendo literally gassing himself out blasting away on his face, Rua wouldn't have made it into a close fight late.

Maybe the play by play you read on the fight didn't mention that Hendo got staggered by a punch in the first round and dove for a takedown that he didn't get immediately. But speaking of Fedor and Feijao "finding" Hendo's chin, where did that get them? Shogun took all Dan had to give and kept coming while neither of the other two were so lucky.

I know I am going to hate with this, but the Fedor/Hendo fight was stopped early by none other then Herb "early stoppage" Dean, evil brother to Steve "fight to the death" Mazzagatti.

Ninja wrote:

Ludo wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Hendo's chin is very available and Rua couldn't find it at all. Fedor and Feijao got to him. Rua didn't. If not for Hendo literally gassing himself out blasting away on his face, Rua wouldn't have made it into a close fight late.

Maybe the play by play you read on the fight didn't mention that Hendo got staggered by a punch in the first round and dove for a takedown that he didn't get immediately. But speaking of Fedor and Feijao "finding" Hendo's chin, where did that get them? Shogun took all Dan had to give and kept coming while neither of the other two were so lucky.

I know I am going to hate with this, but the Fedor/Hendo fight was stopped early by none other then Herb "early stoppage" Dean, evil brother to Steve "fight to the death" Mazzagatti.

I don't agree it was stopped early. Fedor went limp, and it was only another punch that brought him back to life for a moment of disoriented movement. At no point were his hands up to defend his head while getting punched some more.

Ludo wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Hendo's chin is very available and Rua couldn't find it at all. Fedor and Feijao got to him. Rua didn't. If not for Hendo literally gassing himself out blasting away on his face, Rua wouldn't have made it into a close fight late.

Maybe the play by play you read on the fight didn't mention that Hendo got staggered by a punch in the first round and dove for a takedown that he didn't get immediately. But speaking of Fedor and Feijao "finding" Hendo's chin, where did that get them? Shogun took all Dan had to give and kept coming while neither of the other two were so lucky.

I never read the pbp for this fight. I checked the results after I left the chicks house who made me leave the fights before Faber hit the cage, on my phone, in the car, and saw literally "Hendo wins greatest fight possibly in all combat sports history" and instantly contemplated driving my car into the first van full of retards I could find.

I do remember Shogun tagging Hendo in the first or second round and briefly hurting him, but overall, Hendo was open for counters all day long and Rua just could not deliver like he could in his fights with Machida, Chuck and in Pride. You're telling me his speed was not noticeably absent in that fight? Nobody wants to talk about how shitty Rua's striking actually looked in that fight because they don't want to take away from Henderson's win and the epicness of the bout, but honestly, other than being able to survive a horrific assbeating Shogun fought like utter shit until Hendo got tired.

We're not talking about speed, you said he couldn't find Hendo's chin and clearly he did. Had you not been absent for months at a time you'd have seen Me bring up a few times how bad Shoguns movement looked in that fight and in the Jones fight. Clearly his legs are not as they were in 2006 or prior to that. He's flat footed anymore and it shows.

Hendo SHogun was a draw anyways so... Oh wait MMA judges are supposed to determine who I think won a fight.

Ludo wrote:

We're not talking about speed, you said he couldn't find Hendo's chin and clearly he did. Had you not been absent for months at a time you'd have seen Me bring up a few times how bad Shoguns movement looked in that fight and in the Jones fight. Clearly his legs are not as they were in 2006 or prior to that. He's flat footed anymore and it shows.

Landing one solid punch on Hendo in a protracted battle when he is wading in with rights reflects a fighter almost totally unable to find his chin. I saw a lot of people criticizing his movement, especially bobbitt. But I don't see bobbitt disagreeing with me here. You're nitpicking my point. I don't suppose sarcasm, exaggeration or hyberbole will slip under your ever watchful eye.

Shogun couldn't get off in that fight.

You didn't watch this fight still? After all this time?

GDPofDRC wrote:

You didn't watch this fight still? After all this time?

I've watched it 6 times or so. But it has been a little while. I did avoid it out of rage-hatred for a little bit there. Missing that card really sucked. It is hard to get pumped for something when you already know how it ends. Streams crapping out during big fights and spoilers before I can download pushed me to start buying even cards I wasn't that thrilled about for a while. Caused me to carry Showtime and HDnet. My cable bill trumped all other utilities combined for two solid years.

Missing the big moments from your favorite fighters hurts worse than watching them lose. Losing is part of the sport, I am able to deal with that nowdays, but missing that kind of card steals the magic completely.

I need to watch that whole event again.

http://mmajunkie.com/news/28624/ufc-on-fox-4-adds-mitrione-vs-broughton-thompson-vs-de-fries.mma

They include Matt Mitrione (5-1 MMA, 5-1 UFC), who looks to rebound from his first career loss when he meets British fighter Rob Broughton (15-7-1 MMA, 1-2 UFC), as well as English fighters Oli Thompson (9-3 MMA, 0-1 UFC) vs. Phil De Fries (8-1 MMA, 1-1 UFC).
The latest UFC on FOX 4 card now includes:

Hector Lombard vs. Brian Stann
Ryan Bader vs. Lyoto Machida
Travis Browne vs. Ben Rothwell
Terry Etim vs. Joe Lauzon*
Rob Broughton vs. Matt Mitrione
Phil De Fries vs. Oli Thompson