Machida's game plan and Shogun's speed.

I wonder how Machida trained for this. Clearly he anticipated shoots from Shogun and practiced a lot of takedown defense, as shown by Machida stuffing every one of Shogun's takedown attempts. But this seems to have come at a price by neglected striking training. His timing never seemed right and he didn't seem like his normal, smooth self. It would be smart to assume Machida can make the appropriate adjustments.

One thing that surprised me was how fast Shogun was able to get off. He is clearly the best athlete Machida has faced, and the best athlete in the division. Shogun's athleticism has always given him such an advantage, regardless of his opponents skill, time and time again. He truly is a special fighter. But can his speed win the day the next time around now that he's shown his hand? If Machida can negate his kicks next time, what else can Shogun do?

Shogun's stance gave Machida problems too. Someone who truly knows how to use a Thai stance and has truly devastating leg kicks to go with it. It's seriously a shame that Shogun lost the decision because he fought damn near the perfect fight against Machida.

The power in those legs isn't going anywhere, though. Machida's karate stance is going to leave that lead leg out there again for Shogun to tee off on.

Yeah, I didn't really get the impression that Shogun ever intended to take Machida down. At least not as part of his gameplan. His clinches were more a matter of convenience than a strategy. I think in the second fight he'll continue to try and kick Machida's front leg off, but he should try to take Machida down on a more consistent basis as part of his overall strategy.

I mean, obviously he tried to take him down after Machida fell down and stumbled getting back up, but it didn't seem like he was really interested in taking the fight down throughout most of the fight.

I don't see it a style mismatch all of a sudden. Nor do I think Little Mac has discovered Machida's "pattern" stylistically. If leg kicks didn't work alone this time, what does Shogun do next time after Machida has trained and prepared for this strategy? What can he do? Machida should be the favorite next time.

I think now that I have seen them go five rounds, that Shogun does have the tools to get in there on the inside and knock Machida out with his incredible speed and closing ability, but he will have to put himself in danger to do so. If anyone could force Machida into a slugfest, it's Shogun.

If I were Shogun I wouldn't change a damn thing. I would go in there and beat Machida again the same way I did the first time and hope the fucking judges get it right.

You really think he'd fall for this the same way again?

Shogun was faster than Rashad. He rarely gave Machida any opportunity to counter.

Ninja\Rua/Fan wrote:

Shogun was faster than Rashad. He rarely gave Machida any opportunity to counter.

Machida countered tons of shot. Joe just didn't see them. Neither did anyone else.

I thought Rua's power and chin also played a big part. he ate every machida shot. and when machida flurried rua stopped him with some well placed one timers.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Ninja\Rua/Fan wrote:

Shogun was faster than Rashad. He rarely gave Machida any opportunity to counter.

Machida countered tons of shot. Joe just didn't see them. Neither did anyone else.

I saw em. funny thing is I misssed most of rua's leg work watching it live.

but in truth I think rua against pushing machida against the cage, and working the knee's into lyoto's thighs is where he caused the most damage. that is where I think lyoto lost his legs.

what happens in chorky's gif?

I see Shogun getting rocked.

Doesn't look like it phased him too much a connection yes but none of that power Machida had been shown building up for this fight. The hit to Machidas side looked more painful.

Looked like a weak punch to me. Shogun's not Kimbo Slice, he can take a weak karate punch. The shot to the rib was definitely the better hit of the two if you ask me.

chorky777 wrote:

Looked like a weak punch to me. Shogun's not Kimbo Slice, he can take a weak karate punch. The shot to the rib was definitely the better hit of the two if you ask me.

Watched on slow tick and shogun is first with the rib kick, Machidas punch either looses it's pop or was weak to begin with.

GDPofDRC wrote:

chorky777 wrote:

Looked like a weak punch to me. Shogun's not Kimbo Slice, he can take a weak karate punch. The shot to the rib was definitely the better hit of the two if you ask me.

Watched on slow tick and shogun is first with the rib kick, Machidas punch either looses it's pop or was weak to begin with.

Yeah, the rib kick certainly stops any follow through needed for a solid punch. That's how I saw a lot of the exchanges. There were a lot of times where they both threw strikes, and Shogun's got there quicker and they seemed to lessen the power in Machida's strikes.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

You really think he'd fall for this the same way again?

I don't think "falling for it" has anything to do with it. That's like saying Jon Fitch, Matt Serra, and BJ Penn all "fell for" GSP's ground n pound. Machida didn't fall for anything, he simply got beat by a better fighter. It was a great fight and who knows, maybe next time Machida catches Shogun with a hard counter and knocks him out. I think if the rematch goes another 5 rounds it's going to be because Shogun is once again outworking Machida with kicks.

Bigs03 wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

You really think he'd fall for this the same way again?

I don't think "falling for it" has anything to do with it. That's like saying Jon Fitch, Matt Serra, and BJ Penn all "fell for" GSP's ground n pound. Machida didn't fall for anything, he simply got beat by a better fighter. It was a great fight and who knows, maybe next time Machida catches Shogun with a hard counter and knocks him out. I think if the rematch goes another 5 rounds it's going to be because Shogun is once again outworking Machida with kicks.

By the same token... Who knows, maybe next time Shogun catches Machida with a kick or punch and knocks him out. I think most are anticipating the rematch, but it doesn't negate the fact that 99% of the world watching saw a different fight than the judges and are pissed that their incompetence and lack of understading of MMA is forcing us to have to shell out $100 to see a ten round fight over a 6 month period to see who the champ is. If Dana's as pissed as he claims to be, the second fight should be free...

chorky777 wrote:

Looked like a weak punch to me. Shogun's not Kimbo Slice, he can take a weak karate punch. The shot to the rib was definitely the better hit of the two if you ask me.

It's clearly right on the chin and rua's head is turned by the shot. he wobbles a bit, they clinch, Machida turn's him into the fence and should have attacked rua who slowly reacts to machida's feint by preparing to block from an otherwise prone position. Rua def took the brunt of the exchange, look at the reactions. why would rua not continue on the attack if he was not hurt there? why would he stagger, attempt a weak clinch, get turned into the fence and stand there with his hands at his waist if he ust landed a clean knee? the ultimate aggressor that is rua would do that? come on. it's all right there.

So off it's funny

GDPofDRC wrote:

So off it's funny

so rua doesn't lunge for a weak clinch? he doesn't end the exchange arms at his side back against the fence?

Machida throws/ Shogun kicks. both are aimed good enough. Both are in or near air. Punch moves head like it should, but lacks power to damage, Machida was already hit and moved back from the impact could have something to do with it. Shogun doesn't stop, Machida gets high, shogun keeps moving feet, low. Kick has power to move Machida's core back followed by feet, backpedaling, he gets tall, shogun continues advance low, Machida uses good arms to neutralize engagement near the fence. Shoguns arms afterward?? Not really worth commenting on. Looks like he knows what to do with them when Machida cocks his right like he might throw it. Machida clearly gets hit a lot harder.

GDPofDRC wrote:

Machida throws/ Shogun kicks. both are aimed good enough. Both are in or near air. Punch moves head like it should, but lacks power to damage, Machida was already hit and moved back from the impact could have something to do with it. Shogun doesn't stop, Machida gets high, shogun keeps moving feet, low. Kick has power to move Machida's core back followed by feet, backpedaling, he gets tall, shogun continues advance low, Machida uses good arms to neutralize engagement near the fence. Shoguns arms afterward?? Not really worth commenting on. Looks like he knows what to do with them when Machida cocks his right like he might throw it. Machida clearly gets hit a lot harder.

Spot on. You can just see the momentum in Machida stopping. His whole body goes backwards after jumping into the kick. To me it was one of the best kicks, out of a lot of damn good kicks, in the fight. The power it would take to stop a 200 lb. man with a kick is something I don't want to feel. If someone asked me, gun to my head, if I wanted to take Machida's punch or Shogun's kick, I'd take the punch for sure.

GDPofDRC wrote:

Machida throws/ Shogun kicks. both are aimed good enough. Both are in or near air. Punch moves head like it should, but lacks power to damage, Machida was already hit and moved back from the impact could have something to do with it. Shogun doesn't stop, Machida gets high, shogun keeps moving feet, low. Kick has power to move Machida's core back followed by feet, backpedaling, he gets tall, shogun continues advance low, Machida uses good arms to neutralize engagement near the fence. Shoguns arms afterward?? Not really worth commenting on. Looks like he knows what to do with them when Machida cocks his right like he might throw it. Machida clearly gets hit a lot harder.

I don't really understand the first bold and don't agree with the 2nd.

chorky777 wrote:

GDPofDRC wrote:

Machida throws/ Shogun kicks. both are aimed good enough. Both are in or near air. Punch moves head like it should, but lacks power to damage, Machida was already hit and moved back from the impact could have something to do with it. Shogun doesn't stop, Machida gets high, shogun keeps moving feet, low. Kick has power to move Machida's core back followed by feet, backpedaling, he gets tall, shogun continues advance low, Machida uses good arms to neutralize engagement near the fence. Shoguns arms afterward?? Not really worth commenting on. Looks like he knows what to do with them when Machida cocks his right like he might throw it. Machida clearly gets hit a lot harder.

Spot on. You can just see the momentum in Machida stopping. His whole body goes backwards after jumping into the kick. To me it was one of the best kicks, out of a lot of damn good kicks, in the fight. The power it would take to stop a 200 lb. man with a kick is something I don't want to feel. If someone asked me, gun to my head, if I wanted to take Machida's punch or Shogun's kick, I'd take the punch for sure.

I don't deny that the kick was good, but why is the left that lands flush on the chin ignored?

And I ask this: If the Lyoto's strike had minimal effect, then why does rua not follow up his solid kick? This is a guy who everyone is giving aggressor points to, and he doesn't follow up a body kick? He instead lunges for a weak clinch attempt and ends the exchange with his back to the fence. Explain.