Zuffa Plans to Reevaluate Strikeforce

bobbitt15 wrote:

Not sure why pointing out facts about Bellator is considered hate

Where do you stand on the overall issue? Is it already a done deal that SF will be kept around? Is it already a done deal that they will be merged with the UFC? Or are both options still alive?

bobbitt15 wrote:

Not sure why pointing out facts about Bellator is considered hate

err... so you too think their only "star" is Konrad? ok, dana... i agree with you

Not sure. I agree with most of what Wolf has to say though. I don't even think the UFC knows yet, sounds like there are conflicting POVs inside HQ

killerofchicken wrote:

bobbitt15 wrote:

Not sure why pointing out facts about Bellator is considered hate

err... so you too think their only "star" is Konrad? ok, dana... i agree with you

Hmm, must have missed where he said that

bobbitt15 wrote:

Not sure. I agree with most of what Wolf has to say though. I don't even think the UFC knows yet, sounds like there are conflicting POVs inside HQ

So sounds like you still beleive both options are still possible at the moment. You also agree with what I said that the UFC still doesn't know at this point. Wolf's point of view there is no other possible outcome and the UFC(Zuffa) knows SF will be around.

OU wrote:

bobbitt15 wrote:

Not sure. I agree with most of what Wolf has to say though. I don't even think the UFC knows yet, sounds like there are conflicting POVs inside HQ

So sounds like you still beleive both options are still possible at the moment. You also agree with what I said that the UFC still doesn't know at this point. Wolf's point of view there is no other possible outcome and the UFC(Zuffa) knows SF will be around.

I agree with his reasoning on why it would be kept around and think it makes the most sense. I don't believe its the only option though

So you're on my side, welcome to the team.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/9/1/2396893/strikeforces-title-vacancies-prophesizing-promotions-inevitable-demise
Business as usual. It's a phrase that UFC President Dana White used to describe how Strikeforce would promote their future events following the Zuffa buyout back in March. It's become somewhat of an inside joke among mixed martial arts fans over the course of the last five months however. Deep cuts to the promotion's staff and the release of Strikeforce heavyweight champion Alistair Overeem over payment issues aren't indicative of that motto. Now, there are issues surrounding the status of Strikeforce's championship belts:

[Dan] Henderson beat Fedor Emelianenko last month to finish off his Strikeforce contract, making him a free agent. The UFC has expressed interest in bringing Henderson back into the mix, and Henderson has expressed interest in returning to the promotion.

But Coker said Tuesday nothing has been figured out yet, and that if Henderson did return to the UFC, vacating his light heavyweight title, he was not yet sure how that belt would be filled - but that the winner of a fight between Muhammed "King Mo" Lawal and Roger Gracie, on Sept. 10, could position himself to be in the picture.

"There are ongoing discussions with Hendo, and it hasn't been determined yet," Coker said during a Strikeforce media call.

"I like to watch the fight and stir the pot after," Coker said. "Let's see who wins and how they win. We also have some other fights coming up in the 205 weight class - Mike Kyle will be fighting again shortly, and Gegard Mousasi will be probably be fighting before the end of the year. When the time is right, we'll let everybody know."

It hasn't been determined yet whether Henderson will head to the UFC or not, but isn't it inevitable at this point? Coker's comments suggest there is an alternative. There isn't one. Henderson isn't sticking around in Strikeforce. He will vacate the title.

The Strikeforce heavyweight title was vacated when Alistair Overeem was released by the promotion over payment issues. It was recently revealed that the Strikeforce heavyweight grand prix would not determine the next champion. The obvious question is why. Doesn't it make perfect sense to award the man who ran through the tournament field with the belt?

No, that would mean the promotion is sticking around for years to come. It isn't. Unless there is some sort of scenario in which Zuffa wants to give Fabricio Werdum the opportunity to obtain the title outside of the grand prix, this is a clear sign that the promotion will fold into the UFC next year. All of the contract signings as of late are simply ways to fill the remaining cards that Zuffa must fulfill. That's it. Don't expect four-fight deals under the Strikeforce regime to run out the actual length of the contract.

Understandably, Zuffa isn't going to come out and say that a merger will eventually happen. As the deadline nears however, I fully expect to hear credible rumblings of such a deal. Continually vacating the title spot and allowing contracts to expire so that Zuffa can swoop in and sign the next best thing that Strikeforce has produced isn't helping the promotion. It's helping the UFC. Fans will get what they want early next year. Count on it.

I'll reply to your post point by point where I disagree with you friend.


The writing written on this wall says SF is on it's death bed.

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The four biggest draw are out of SF in the past three months, three of them being the freaking belt holders.

The Showtime deal is winding down, coupled with a huge new deal with a network channel and two cable channel by the owning company. There is no FOX advertising unless it is for UFC on a FOX channel.

Zuffa is a PPV company first and foremost. It makes no sense to have PPV caliber fighters, especially when GSP has no opponents and HW is thin as ever, fighting on Showtime. Those moves at the top were going to happen no matter what, and since they would have happened no matter what, It is hard for me to use that as the crux of any prediction that Strikeforce will be closed. I do not believe Strikeforce needs a hand full of any specific fighters nor do I believe their fate is at all tied into Strikeforce's.

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Having a stable that goes from 260 fighters to 310 fighters could equate to about 5 or 6 additional full events a year for a company that has stated they would strive to have an event a week one day. If there is not enough events, what more simple solution is there than to have more events?

The terms of the new deal are exclusive. The UFC cannot broadcast other events anywhere. There has been talk they're going to scale back on PPV just slightly, and with only 12 contracted non PPV events, there is no room to add any events unless they want to add even more PPV's, which is not something that seems likely or wise. Simply adding five events is impossible.

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UFC's growth helps SF grow much less than it helps SF grow if SF is renamed UFC and is absorbed.

The UFC will keep Strikeforce for these reasons ; place holder on other networks, and to be their own competition. There will always be a market for non UFC branded MMA, and what better way to exploit that then run your own competition?

Quote :

SF won't grow as it has in the past for, as previously mentioned, it hasalready retracted in the worst kind of way, at the top.

I don't know that they have "retracted at the top" as much as moved a few fighters to PPV where they belong. Strikeforce doesn't need to "grow" or have the potential to be the same. It isn't the same. The WEC wasn't the same type of company either.

Quote :

Zuffa is gonna make more money with SF gone completely and their best assets used to generate UFC branded revenue.

How can you say this when owning a second brand allows them to make other TV deals? They are capped in what they can do in terms of the UFC. The Fox deal is IT. The Strikeforce assets they can make more money with - the PPV type fighters - have mostly already been taken. They make more money with their own Spike TV deal, and save more money by keeping a non Zuffa show off MMA's premier cable channel.

Quote :

The tailings being released into the wild is a minute tradeoff for the obvious course of action coming in the near future.

Trimming the bottom will be of minor significance to Bellator, Dream, ProElite, M-1 etc.,.

The mainstream is UFC.

Those brands are going to move and get in where they fit in on the HDNets and MTVs and Spikes until one fits so well that it is absorbed into the UFC. Networks will work with whatever they think can get them a piece of the pie, Zuffa doesn't have to serve shit to anyone though and now that they are a patron of FOX, will likely dedicate their menu to their three available outlets.

The mainstream is the UFC, and proper management of Strikeforce will keep it that way. Less to worry about if the closest competitors are fighting with Strikeforce and not the primary brand.




Here is one thing everyone is missing ; Yes the UFC is the mainstream, yes they're on Fox, but NO they are not above injury from competition. Free MMA is always a risk to a Pay per view company, which is what they still are. Bellator on Saturday...hypothetically...costs the UFC millions per event. Millions. 20k buys is a million bucks. Even if the event is huge and successful, if Spike convinces just 60k people to watch Eddie Alvarez or someone, thats three million dollars. You'd be foolish not to see how Spike could do this.

Leland just points out the fact PPV fighters are being moved to the PPV side of the company, which is what Zuffa is. I can't envision a scenario where they don't move those fighters over. I just cannot then make that leap to "closing for sure".

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Leland just points out the fact PPV fighters are being moved to the PPV side of the company, which is what Zuffa is. I can't envision a scenario where they don't move those fighters over. I just cannot then make that leap to "closing for sure".

You can't even make the baby step of "it's possible".

OU shut up dude. "In my opinion" is implied. Sure it's possible. It's also possible the Eagles will cut Michael Vick tomorrow. Not likely. It's also possible the Cards will let Pujols sign with the Cubs. Not likely.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

OU shut up dude. "In my opinion" is implied. Sure it's possible. It's also possible the Eagles will cut Michael Vick tomorrow. Not likely. It's also possible the Cards will let Pujols sign with the Cubs. Not likely.

So the odds are on par with those examples? It is also implied by your post that you give it a 0% chance that SF will be merged into the UFC. You gave no wiggle room for any possibility otherwise. You were very stubborn with your extreme certainty.

10% possible, with women being merged into the UFC and the Fox deal amended so more shows could be added. Doesn't seem likely though. The UFC can use SF to build markets and promote fighters without over saturation of the UFC brand itself. They still gotta sell PPVs.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

10% possible, with women being merged into the UFC and the Fox deal amended so more shows could be added. Doesn't seem likely though. The UFC can use SF to build markets and promote fighters without over saturation of the UFC brand itself. They still gotta sell PPVs.

There we go, a much more realistic conversation we have now. Instead of "you retards, there is no chance SF will die, if you think so you don't know shit!"
Again like I have stated many times I hope SF is alive atleast in some form. I prefer SF to be as close to what it is now as possible. I would prefer it to be more then just a "feeder league". Although I would still prefer that option to a full merger with SF. I'm still leaning the other way on this and I think the merger will happen sometime in 2012. I would put my number around 70% that is what happens.

they already are a feeder league. Have their champions move over after their is enough fan interest. it's a great way to supplement the UFC with PPV challengers. Build them in SF, have them jump into contender fights in the UFC. Like they're doing now.

Lorenz Larkin is a perfect future example. Let him move to 185 and win a couple more fights with his awesome standup, the cries for an Anderson Silva match will be deafening.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

they already are a feeder league. Have their champions move over after their is enough fan interest. it's a great way to supplement the UFC with PPV challengers. Build them in SF, have them jump into contender fights in the UFC. Like they're doing now.

Lorenz Larkin is a perfect future example. Let him move to 185 and win a couple more fights with his awesome standup, the cries for an Anderson Silva match will be deafening.

They are still more then just a feeder league at this point. But it looks like they might be slowly becoming just that. Not until very recently did they become more of a feeder league. But still to this point the only fighters really brought over are Mayhem and Nick. They aren't just a feeder league....yet.

Anyways. 97% chance SF goes away someday. 75% chance is happens in the next 16 months. 50% chance is happens in the next 8.

GDPofDRC wrote:

Anyways. 97% chance SF goes away someday. 75% chance is happens in the next 16 months. 50% chance is happens in the next 8.

100% chance it goes away someday. But it will not happen for a few years.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

GDPofDRC wrote:

Anyways. 97% chance SF goes away someday. 75% chance is happens in the next 16 months. 50% chance is happens in the next 8.

100% chance it goes away someday. But it will not happen for a few years.

Few years like 2-3? What is your likely time frame for SF?

A lot can happen in two years. Most of my arguments speak to the here and now concerns for Zuffa. I could envision a future scenario where the workings of the Fox deal are changed so perhaps UFC branded content found its way to other channels, or the number of events are increased or over time the rosters were streamlined so a merger wouldn't include an additional 104 contracts that would have to be sorted out.

But now? There is no sensible way to "merge" with as big as Strikeforce is. Not in any way that wouldn't include the loss of a tremendous amount of assets. Dozens and dozens of fighters they could make money off of now.

Strikeforce has 104 contracted fighters. 50-60 men fighters who would deserve a UFC look based on name and promotional record.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

A lot can happen in two years. Most of my arguments speak to the here and now concerns for Zuffa. I could envision a future scenario where the workings of the Fox deal are changed so perhaps UFC branded content found its way to other channels, or the number of events are increased or over time the rosters were streamlined so a merger wouldn't include an additional 104 contracts that would have to be sorted out.

But now? There is no sensible way to "merge" with as big as Strikeforce is. Not in any way that wouldn't include the loss of a tremendous amount of assets. Dozens and dozens of fighters they could make money off of now.

Yeah but will the positive still out weigh that negative? There are always going to be some draw backs but as a whole would the merger do more good then harm? Losing out on whatever fighters they have to part with, for whatever reason, might be outweighed by the bigger picture. Just some of the immediate "super fights" that could be made with a merger could make it all worth it in Zuffa's eyes.

Wouldn't it just make more sense to keep selling both products when both make money? Consider ; what makes the most money?

How does the UFC make more money for Zuffa by taking the best and just cutting everyone over continuing to sell tickets and TV deals with Strikeforce?

This ignores all the other facets of the argument.


$$$$ people.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Wouldn't it just make more sense to keep selling both products when both make money? Consider ; what makes the most money?

How does the UFC make more money for Zuffa by taking the best and just cutting everyone over continuing to sell tickets and TV deals with Strikeforce?

This ignores all the other facets of the argument.


$$$$ people.

The money is with the UFC brand name. That is where they will make the most money and that is where they will get the biggest return from their fighters. You don't think eventually the UFC wants it all under that 1 umbrella? You are saying the UFC should keep SF around simply to deny other organizations whatever leftover fighters of value that won't make it over in a merger? If they think a fighter is worthy they will bring them on board, there will always be some fighter out there that for whatever reason doesn't come to terms with the UFC. But that won't stop them from merging if that is what they feel is the best move for the company. Why can't they have their own developmental league(UFC Challengers) under the UFC brand? I don't think leftover fighters making it to other organizations will play much of a factor in a merger decision.