Zuffa buying SF is turning into a complete clusterfuck.

captain organic wrote:

LA wrote:

captain organic wrote:

LA wrote:

You know what Showtime money is? Um you don't, and what about Versus? Now NBC Sports, WEC was just that, a feeder technically, oh yeah forgot about that......, big shows on NBC = win. Any channel could also get the UFC you know right? It doesn't simply have to be Showtime gets Feeder _____ gets UFC.

Since when is Showtime so great anyways, their production is the worst in the business.

UFC has all the cards, could be HBO, Showtime, Comcast(Versus/NBC), Fox, G4..........Doesn't really matter where in all reality, though Versus/Comcast is the best play.

based on fighter pay, I can assume that showtime was paying alot more then any other non spike TV channel. Showtime backing SF is what made SF far and away the 2nd best MMA org in the land.

And Showtimes poor production has been so over blown. go watch Shark fights on fuel and tell me showtimes is the worst in the business.

Fox or G4? Seriously? Bellator bolted Fox for greener pastures, but now they are a player in keeping SF relevant?

And WEC was about 10% feeder org. Faber the WEC poster boy(who was raking in a cool 30k per fight) was never in jeopardy of being absorbed, well at least until WEC went out of business, which def jives with my overall point.

It was Showtime? Dude it was the fighter stable, many people thought Bellator had a better run Org with better production...

I don't understand why you think SF needs Showtime to stay relevant, SF could be the second best Org in MMA and still be a UFC feeder, that's how deep a stable Zuffa as whole could hold. Any fucking station could/would work, especially ones on regular cable.

WEC was either 1/3 feeder when it was just BW/FW/WW and 3/5 feeder before that.

check the timeline. When did SF make their big push on the scene? when they signed with showtime. Not to be a dick, but this is obvious stuff here.

Also I don't remember much feeding of high caliber lw's from the WEC to the UFC. The only time fighters that made that switch is when the WEC closed a division, or closed their doors for good.

Not to be a dick bro, but it was the fighter stable which created their push, they could have been on any channel in reality, EliteXC was on Showtime....

The fighter stable improved dramatically after they signed with Showtime.

When did Fedor, Diaz, Big Foot, AA, Shields, Barnett, Werdum, Jacare, Gegard, Hendo, Noons, Daley, Lawler, Mayhem, Kennedy, sign with SF? Before or after they signed with showtime?

EliteXC went out of business cause they liked to pay guys like Kimbo $500K per fight.

The fighter stable improved because Coker made a huge push to sign all these great fighters that weren't signed with Zuffa, it's no different then when Affliction went out to bring all these guys in, why did people watch? The point that EliteXC was on Showtime is pointing out that no one gave a shit they were on Showtime, it's all about the quality of fights you can put on. You honestly think SF's push in MMA had to do with them being on fucking Showtime and not because they added pretty much every good fighter not signed to Zuffa? Would people not be just as interested had they been on another channel?

LA how do u sign big time fighters if u dont have the $$$ to pay them?

Is it conicidence that Coker made the push to build the stable after they signed with Showtime? Or coarse not.

Today's big $$$ athletics is powered by television $$$$. This goes for all sports.

and yes Elite was powered by showtime/CBS $$$ as well. It's just that they spent it poorly.

Im not saying that people watch SF for the mere fact that they are on Showtime(it's a hindrance in fact cause of the relative few people who have the station) but the showtime $$$ enabled SF to sign fighters, which then brought the viewers.

SHowtime is a big player they are the ones taht brought you Tyson- Holyfield 1 and 2 and alot of other Tyson fights, they bring SF and good boxing, just brought in 1.3 million buys with Pacquiao vs Mosley

captain organic wrote:

LA how do u sign big time fighters if u dont have the $$$ to pay them?

Is it conicidence that Coker made the push to build the stable after they signed with Showtime? Or coarse not.

Today's big $$$ athletics is powered by television $$$$. This goes for all sports.

and yes Elite was powered by showtime/CBS $$$ as well. It's just that they spent it poorly.

Im not saying that people watch SF for the mere fact that they are on Showtime(it's a hindrance in fact cause of the relative few people who have the station) but the showtime $$$ enabled SF to sign fighters, which then brought the viewers.

They just added a group of new investors and boughtout EliteXC and you don't remember SF on NBC? Why nothing then?

I did misread part of what you said originally, and I can get some of the Showtime deal giving them more money to spend angle, but with EliteXC failing in that same situation and ending up owing Showtime 20 million in the end, I'm still more on the side of Coker adding all great available fighters being the reason they became what they became. And you can dog EliteXC but Kimbo was one of the biggest draws in all of MMA, it wasn't hurting them. M-1 is on Showtime too, is anyone watching?

Im not dogging Elite, (outside of them overpaying for Kimbo), the showtime/CBS deal made them relevant as well. This goes with my point.

but the timeline says it all. The vast majority of the fighters, including the near entirity of the HWY division, came aboard after SF inked the deal with Showtime And it even goes back further then just the post elite contract, cause SF was aired on the channel b4 then as well.

SF on NBC? that shit was on at like 4 AM. That was a crappy deal that I can assume payed nothing.

as far as M-1 goes, there is a reason M-1 made that part of the Fedor negotiations.

Though here it is not so much about $$$ as it is about exposure. And I think they have done well on this point.

Watch, if SF bolts showtime, whatever org moves in to fill that slot will become a much bigger player on the scene.

Same goes with UFC and Spike.

And mine is either could have been on any number of stations and would have been equally relevant. The guys they added were guys that weren't signing with the UFC anyways, Fedor if anyone could be the biggest reason, he didn't sign with the UFC due to Co-Pro which SF was willing to do, making SF more of a big Org. This started cause of this, "what channel is going to pay showtime $$$$ for a feeder org? An org that can lose it's best talent at any moment. No one is. Not even close". I said Showtime is meaningless as it's just as viable an option as anyother....Also, the timeline thing is misleading, EliteXC or M-1 didn't have these huge pushes after signing deals. This comes down to Coker making an effort to create a true rival Org, he nabbed up most guys that weren't UFC type guys, cut, Co-Pro. ect...And again you don't really know what the Showtime deal was, after a bad taste in their mouth with Elite owing them 20 mill, what do we assume it was? Hell they could have signed all these guys while losing money, just to get that initial lift and hoping to make it up in the long run.

captain organic wrote:

as far as M-1 goes, there is a reason M-1 made that part of the Fedor negotiations.

Though here it is not so much about $$$ as it is about exposure. And I think they have done well on this point.

Watch, if SF bolts showtime, whatever org moves in to fill that slot will become a much bigger player on the scene.

Same goes with UFC and Spike.

Not without the talent, which is what people tune into see.

I'll be back if u still around, got to run to the store.

with Showtime or Spike $$$ talent can be had.


Again, see the influx of talent AFTER SF signed with showtime.

nah, i gotta go to sleep.

I'll continue beating on your dead horse at a later time.

captain organic wrote:

with Showtime or Spike $$$ talent can be had.


Again, see the influx of talent AFTER SF signed with showtime.

From where? And that influx is made of guys that were cut from the UFC, UFC didn't want to sign, from Elite, Co-Pro issues ect, we won't see that again, well maybe a few but we won't see any waves like Coker made adding all that talent, which is why they became big....

You are way to high on Showtime's influence , did those SF.com users get in your head?

"When did Fedor, Diaz, Big Foot, AA, Shields, Barnett, Werdum, Jacare, Gegard, Hendo, Noons, Daley, Lawler, Mayhem, Kennedy, sign with SF? Before or after they signed with showtime?"

Fedor after, and after the UFC wouldn't Co-pro and SF would, they could have had no money and thought the end return would makeup for initial loses. And Fedor could have brought in other fighters just by his name alone.

Big Foot came from Elite

Diaz came from Elite

AA was cut from the UFC, he needed to endup somewhere? Why not where Fedor is?

Barnett was in limbo for years.

Shields came from Elite

Werdum was cut from the UFC, needed to endup somewhere

Jacare I never quite understood, but as MW and training partner of Anderson, I can see why he might have signed with SF which was the secondest most relevant US MMA Org.

Gerard was with M-1 at the time and still wanted to fight in Japan

Hendo was let go due to $$$

Noons was from Elite

Daley? Come on, that was way later.

Lawler was from Elite

Kennedy and Miller not sure, but they couldn't have been making more the 50K per


Elite was bought before, and see more to things then your timeline....

Anyways, I'm done with this one, "Showtime is the reason SF became big" you can have it..

AA and Werdum were not cut from the UFC. Just like Nick Diaz wasn't cut from the UFC. It should be very obvious when you look at AA and Diaz, both fighters ended their runs in the UFC on winning streaks. With Werdum the UFC wanted to re-negotiate his contract after the JDS loss and they couldn't settle on a new deal. I thought all this was common knowledge?

bobbitt15 wrote:

But at the end of the day, you'd still want to see the best fighters facing either other. Unless you really enjoy situations like Jacare defending his belt against a 100% undeserving Luke Rockhold followed by already rematching Tim Kennedy...and then what?

Thats the issue right now, that hasnt happened yet or looks like it will happen.

Only Diaz vs GSP has come about and everything else is a clusterfuck like the OP stated

gomez1012 wrote:

bobbitt15 wrote:

But at the end of the day, you'd still want to see the best fighters facing either other. Unless you really enjoy situations like Jacare defending his belt against a 100% undeserving Luke Rockhold followed by already rematching Tim Kennedy...and then what?

Thats the issue right now, that hasnt happened yet or looks like it will happen.

Only Diaz vs GSP has come about and everything else is a clusterfuck like the OP stated

Keyword yet. It will happen or to some extent it will just like when the UFC bought pride.

UFC is working to become the NFL, NBA, & MLB equivalent for their sports.

Farmer1906 wrote:

Keyword yet. It will happen or to some extent it will just like when the UFC bought pride.

UFC is working to become the NFL, NBA, & MLB equivalent for their sports.

I get that, but strange way to go about it

Not going to argue that they wont get there, but some of these moves just make you

They are taking the Vince McMahon approach.

Pretty successful model to follow

gomez1012 wrote:

Farmer1906 wrote:

Keyword yet. It will happen or to some extent it will just like when the UFC bought pride.

UFC is working to become the NFL, NBA, & MLB equivalent for their sports.

I get that, but strange way to go about it

Not going to argue that they wont get there, but some of these moves just make you

So buying out other companies with top fighters is not the way to go about becoming the best

guys its time to realize something, MMA and UFC is no where even close to the status that boxing achieved, it is still considered a niche sport and they will ever be a legit competitor to NFL