What MMA welterweights would beat GSP in a K-1 match.

No one of course. But if you're drinking the GSP sucks koolaid lately, tell me your pick to beat GSP standing.

Wow, who said GSP sucks? Or was anything except elite? But you take it to an extreme.

Rory McDonald probably TKO's him with a cork-screw crescent kick "animal" elbow.

OU wrote:

Wow, who said GSP sucks? Or was anything except elite? But you take it to an extreme.

1. Only posted the strawman in response to your fanboy accusations.

2. I notice you avoid the issue and list no names.

check

Wolfgangsta wrote:

OU wrote:

Wow, who said GSP sucks? Or was anything except elite? But you take it to an extreme.

1. Only posted the strawman in response to your fanboy accusations.

2. I notice you avoid the issue and list no names.

check

1. Your GSP fandom is obvious, no thread is needed for that.

2. I think GSP would struggle vs all the top strikers in MMA in a pure striking match. I wouldn't put it past Whitemare, Alves and Kampmann to beat GSP in a K-1 match. I'll go just short of saying John Howard would beat him.

Both are ridiculous claims. I have openly criticized GSP many times. Further, to think Kampmann who is stiff as a board and slow would threaten an athlete like GSP is hilarious. Alves? Come on dude. Look at their footwork and speed. Not even in the same universe. GSP would dance around these fools.


You need to give some technical reasons why these guys are better than GSP standing that make sense and can be supported. All you're saying is

"you a fanboy, this guy wins, GSP only wins coz takedowns"

Yeah I was thinking Alves and and Kamp might be the only guys that would have a chance. I do think there is one guy that would beat GSP and that is the drunk French guy that GSP brought on TUF. I watched about 4-5 of that guys fights and he is a bad dude.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Both are ridiculous claims. I have openly criticized GSP many times. Further, to think Kampmann who is stiff as a board and slow would threaten an athlete like GSP is hilarious. Alves? Come on dude. Look at their footwork and speed. Not even in the same universe. GSP would dance around these fools.


You need to give some technical reasons why these guys are better than GSP standing that make sense and can be supported. All you're saying is

"you a fanboy, this guy wins, GSP only wins coz takedowns"

How can you acknowledge in 1 post that MMA wrestling is not the same as pure wrestling and at the same time fail to realize that MMA striking is not equal to pure striking? If you really think is a pure striking match that these guys would really fight they way they do in a MMA match? Because that is what we are talking about, a standup fight with no threat of a takedown. The amazing GSP would look much more mortal against the same competition.

GSP's karate and tae kwon do backgrounds combined with his natural speed and reflexes along with further work on boxing with Roach would make him a nightmare if he chose to focus on his striking that much. Even still I would take him now over pretty much anybody in the division

OU wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Both are ridiculous claims. I have openly criticized GSP many times. Further, to think Kampmann who is stiff as a board and slow would threaten an athlete like GSP is hilarious. Alves? Come on dude. Look at their footwork and speed. Not even in the same universe. GSP would dance around these fools.


You need to give some technical reasons why these guys are better than GSP standing that make sense and can be supported. All you're saying is

"you a fanboy, this guy wins, GSP only wins coz takedowns"

How can you acknowledge in 1 post that MMA wrestling is not the same as pure wrestling and at the same time fail to realize that MMA striking is not equal to pure striking? If you really think is a pure striking match that these guys would really fight they way they do in a MMA match? Because that is what we are talking about, a standup fight with no threat of a takedown. The amazing GSP would look much more mortal against the same competition.

The differences in wrestling and MMA wrestling and striking and MMA striking are not exactly the same. The only thing I am failing to acknowledge is they are the same - cause they aint. Assuming the difference between kickboxing and mma striking and wrestling as a sport and mma wrestling would be of equal measure or inherently analogous is a simple way to look at it. Further, the fact I say GSP would possible lose in wrestling to wrestlers should go to prove that there isn't some GSP loving motive here.

Again, what advantages will guys like Alves gain? The ability to mask attacks? See attacks? Speed? Athleticism? A blackbelt in Kyokushin karate? What does GSP lose? Any of those? GSP's MMA striking would have a greater transference than his wrestling.

Nothing changes. Without the threat of takedowns GSP is still the best WW striker in MMA. OU you be running out of legs to stand on here partner.

diaz eats him up on the feet.

Diaz gets picked apart with speed assuredly. The only question there is whether Nick's persistence could break GSP's will. I still have questions at how well he would react in a dogfight

sokolkevin wrote:

diaz eats him up on the feet.

Why? GSP forget about footwork or movement? How does Diaz get close enough? GSP doesn't wade in and exchange, almost ever, and that is what Diaz's striking counts on to be effective. Diaz would lose a decision 9/10 times. Match ups people. Styles make fights.

GSP Diaz on the feet only would be Diaz chasing GSP around talking shit and goading him, with GSP landing nothing but back kicks and leg kicks, and leaping in superman style to pinch Diaz's nose periodically and leaping out before anything bad happens. GSP would stick to the jab and rarely even throw the right, never once launching a three punch combo. Diaz would become frustrated sooner than GSP. He'd accuse him of running and the crowd wouldn't like the fight - unless GSP catches him coming in and scores a knockdown like both he and Machida have always done, even during their stretches where they haven't finished fights.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

OU wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Both are ridiculous claims. I have openly criticized GSP many times. Further, to think Kampmann who is stiff as a board and slow would threaten an athlete like GSP is hilarious. Alves? Come on dude. Look at their footwork and speed. Not even in the same universe. GSP would dance around these fools.


You need to give some technical reasons why these guys are better than GSP standing that make sense and can be supported. All you're saying is

"you a fanboy, this guy wins, GSP only wins coz takedowns"

How can you acknowledge in 1 post that MMA wrestling is not the same as pure wrestling and at the same time fail to realize that MMA striking is not equal to pure striking? If you really think is a pure striking match that these guys would really fight they way they do in a MMA match? Because that is what we are talking about, a standup fight with no threat of a takedown. The amazing GSP would look much more mortal against the same competition.

The differences in wrestling and MMA wrestling and striking and MMA striking are not exactly the same. The only thing I am failing to acknowledge is they are the same - cause they aint. Assuming the difference between kickboxing and mma striking and wrestling as a sport and mma wrestling would be of equal measure or inherently analogous is a simple way to look at it. Further, the fact I say GSP would possible lose in wrestling to wrestlers should go to prove that there isn't some GSP loving motive here.

Again, what advantages will guys like Alves gain? The ability to mask attacks? See attacks? Speed? Athleticism? A blackbelt in Kyokushin karate? What does GSP lose? Any of those? GSP's MMA striking would have a greater transference than his wrestling.

Nothing changes. Without the threat of takedowns GSP is still the best WW striker in MMA. OU you be running out of legs to stand on here partner.

Come on I know you can't be that naive. You really think nothing would change if it was a standup fight? Like not having to focus or worry about takedowns wouldn't change the mentality and approach to fighting GSP in the standup? Because it changes EVERYTHING. The same way a boxer must change his stance if he were to fight in MMA and have to worry about leg kicks and takedowns. You really don't think it would allow these guys to open up and become more comfortable and that in itself would allow them to be more effective strikers? When you limit what GSP can do you have less things to worry about. If you can't comprehend that basic concept then I don't know what else to tell you. GSP's explosive takedowns limit what his opponent can do in the standup. Without that things open up for his opponent.

Are we still talking K-1 or MMA? GSP takes Diaz in either one imo. In a boxing match I would take Diaz though by points....if he doesn't get cut up that is.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

sokolkevin wrote:

diaz eats him up on the feet.

Why? GSP forget about footwork or movement? How does Diaz get close enough? GSP doesn't wade in and exchange, almost ever, and that is what Diaz's striking counts on to be effective. Diaz would lose a decision 9/10 times. Match ups people. Styles make fights.

I'm with Soko.

Why? Diaz's reach, pressure, and chin.

Wolf, be real. Saying Alves doesn't have a better shot at GSP in a pure striking match without any threat of takedowns is ridiculous. Look at how the threat of the takedown turned the tables on GSP less than a month ago. Look at how he looked against Koschek and then how he looked against Shields. Once he figured out Koscheck was willing to stand around looking for an overhand right he opened up on him. Once he thought Jake was going to try and take him down at every opportunity he didn't.

Alves has the speed and power to give anyone else in MMA problems at 170lbs. his leg kicks are the equalizer, he has the chin to take the necessary shots to set up his own.

The notion that Diaz is immune to punches is ridiculous when he has been planted on his ass numerous times in recent fights and his career. He'd never stay close enough to pressure GSP. All his aggression would do is get his face fucked up with super man jabs. Again, Diaz traps guys against the fence and unloads or gets them in exchanges. GSP doesn't get trapped against the fence and he never exchanges combinations. GSP's game is almost immune to Diaz's.

Quote :

Wolf, be real. Saying Alves doesn't have a better shot at GSP in a pure striking match without any threat of takedowns is ridiculous.

Where did I say this? I said GSP still beats Alves. I would give Alves a better shot. Not having a better shot and having a better shot and still losing are different things. I spoke to the final result, not probabilities of the two. Don't confuse my argument. So you be real - focus on things I really said.

Alves leg kicks are the only thing that would give him a chance as his hand speed and punching technique is nothing to write home about.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Alves? Come on dude. Look at their footwork and speed. Not even in the same universe. GSP would dance around these fools.

You act like he has no shot whatsoever. To say Alves would definitely lose a striking battle with GSP is absurd. Without the threat of takedowns everything changes. GSP isn't using the same footwork because he's not shooting, Alves isn't using the same footwork because he's not trying to block a shot. If you don't believe Me compare GSP's last two performances. As soon as he figured out Koscheck would just stand there and try to land an overhand right GSP opened up on him. As soon as he thought Jake would try to take him down everytime an opportunity arose he didn't open up. The same thing happens to the guys who fought GSP before. A constant takedown threat changes the entire gameplan for a fighter who's main strength is standing up, or who isn't as good grappling as GSP.

Also, despite his footwork and speed GSP's striking has devolved into jabs, high kicks, and some body kicks mixed in. His technique is crisp, this is true, but he's not overly diversed that he can't be rushed on or drawn into a brawl under the right circumstances. Jake shields dragged him into a dogfight after he thumbed his eye and had Jake Shields been someone like Thiago Alves who knows what could have happened. Thiago's durability and power keep him in a K-1 fight with GSP until the very end and that is far from a certainty.

Alves isn't that great of a striker dude. He really isn't. He has some brutal knockouts over grapplers but he aint in GSP's league and that was firmly established at UFC 100.

GSP stopped opening up against Jake because he couldn't see the punches coming. Jake never committed to attempting a lot of takedowns and he would have to get in super super deep in the first place for his shot to have a chance to even work. He was never a takedown threat. Not even a little bit. It was solely the lack of vision in one eye. 50% blindness and nothing else.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Alves isn't that great of a striker dude. He really isn't. He has some brutal knockouts over grapplers but he aint in GSP's league and that was firmly established at UFC 100.

GSP stopped opening up against Jake because he couldn't see the punches coming. Jake never committed to attempting a lot of takedowns and he would have to get in super super deep in the first place for his shot to have a chance to even work. He was never a takedown threat. Not even a little bit. It was solely the lack of vision in one eye. 50% blindness and nothing else.

then how do you explain the utter tentativeness GSP displayed before he got poked in the eye during that fight? He clammed up from the get go after Shields lifted him by his knee. Also, where did I say Alves was a great striker? I said he's dangerous to anyone at 170lbs purely in a striking sense because he is big, strong, durable, fast for his size, and has leg kicks to set up other strikes. We can argue all day about whether or not Alves is an above average striker technical terms but that really isn't the issue. He will walk anyone down and rush them if he has to because his chin will hold up that long and he'll get inside to throw some shots. In a straight up brawl GSP is vulnerable because in a brawl technical ability doesn't count for as much.

Yea, like Machida and Mayweather are vulnerable in brawls. Good luck with that strategy.

And GSP was winging KO punches(his version) until he got poked in the eye. It was not about being afraid of takedowns because

A. Jake didn't seem to have much urgency there because

B. His attempts in comparison to GSP's defense were literally a joke and laughed off by GSP at will


I get the suspicion that with two eyes GSP loosens up and finishes Shields.