The true #1... Wolf?

heres the thing if Nate does get Frank down i dont think he has the skills to win from there, he either gets subbed in a scramle like Jeremy Horn did or gets an arm trapped or Nate gasses and frank survives to stand and trade some more

Bird and Wolf, I can't even believe they are arguing about the greatness of Frank Shamrock. He was ahead of his time and would easily be top 10 p4p if he was at his peak today.

completely agree freak

no one ever agrees but i have Frank #1 all time P4P, the man didnt lose at the top of his game and was great at virtually everything

Tito's awesome reign actually began the fight after Frank destroyed him. Frank retired and Tito won the vacated title against Wanderlei Silva. If Frank never retired Tito would've never held the title.

I think Frank would have lost to Tito in a rematch, but Frank is smaller than some middleweights and could probably fight at 170 honestly, and Tito is about the same size as HW goat listers like Fedor, Nog, Couture and Crocop.

I'd take a prime Frank Shamrock over Marquardt anyday. Prime Ken Shamrock...not.

I am in that camp. Ken was a product of the era. He'd be good today but not legendary. Frank would still be clowning fools. GSP before GSP was GSP.

KingsOwn19 wrote:

I'd take a prime Frank Shamrock over Marquardt anyday. Prime Ken Shamrock...not.

Ken would still be top 10 and would beat Matt Hamill that's for sure.

All things considered Hamill has done well. Jones fucked him up so that is an obvious loss regardless of the record but he hasn't been bad overall. He is in the top 20 I'd say after this weekend, 15-20 range.

Hamill would have been top 20 well before this weekend on my card.

Hamill was top 20 whether he won or lost.

1 Mauricio Rua 100 UFC 1
2 Lyoto Machida 95 UFC 2
3 Rashad Evans 92 UFC 3
4 Quinton Jackson 86 UFC 4
5 Forrest Griffin 80 UFC 5
6 Ryan Bader 68 UFC 16
7 Jon Jones 62 UFC 9
8 Antonio Rogerio Nogueira 62 UFC 6
9 Anderson Silva 60 UFC 7
10 Gegard Mousasi 52 DREAM 10
11 Thiago Silva 51 UFC 11
12 Randy Couture 48 UFC 13
13 Muhammed Lawal 46 Strikeforce 8
14 Rich Franklin 46 UFC 12
15 Dan Henderson 39 Strikeforce 14
16 Rafael Cavalcante 38 Strikeforce 15
17 Renato Sobral 28 Strikeforce 17
18 Matt Hamill 26 UFC 19
19 Vitor Belfort 25 UFC 18
20 Brandon Vera 20 UFC 20
21 Jason Brilz 14 UFC 26
22 Luis Arthur Cane 14 UFC 23
23 Tito Ortiz 13 UFC 24
23 Phil Davis 13 UFC 27
25 Chuck Liddell 13 UFC 21
25 Cyrille Diabate 13 UFC 25

I don't agree with those rankings.

Those are the consensus rankings from bloodyelbow which take the top 20 sites(according to them anyway) and average the rankings.

am i the only one that thinks a prime Ken mauls Tito?

also lets not say Ken was a product of the era, Bas Rutten beats alot of the tops in the division today. any arguments?

01 Mauricio Rua
02 Lyoto Machida
03 Rashad Evans
04 Quinton Jackson
05 Forrest Griffin
06 Jon Jones
07 Rafael Cavalcante
08 Muhammed Lawal
09 Ryan Bader
10 Gegard Mousasi
11 Randy Couture
12 Dan Henderson
13 Antonio Rogerio Nogueira
14 Rich Franklin
15 Thiago Silva
16 Matt Hamill
17 Renato Sobral
18 Brandon Vera
19 Jason Brilz
20 Tito Ortiz

7-15 all interchangeable.

Birdofthad wrote:

am i the only one that thinks a prime Ken mauls Tito?

I think Ken wins also.

Forrest at 5?

Two straight KTFO's and a split decision war with Ortiz? It can also be argued that Rampage and Shogun were not the best they could have been when he beat them, years ago. I'd rank Forrest somewhere around 12-15

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

This makes me laugh.

Boxing fans overate the past
UFC fans underate the past

People need to get their shit together.

you underrate the past in boxing

start getting yo shit together son haha

food for thought

Tiger Flowers went 30-0-3 3 News Decisions in 1924, beat Johny Wilson and Harry Greb , in 1926 he beat Greb for the title, defended against Greb then fought Mickey Walker, you dont see guys go undefeated in 36 fights in 1 year or fight ATGs back to back to back like that.

I don't say the old are crap though. I agree they are great. It's you guys that have no respect for present day fighters like Mayweather and prime RJJ.

See I do though Im a huge Mayweather believer, he is top 50ish if he retired right know, can reach top 25 All time probably
Roy is #88 says Bert Sugar, argue with that, I have Roy in 80 to 100 all time range, facts are he has more fights he didnt have than he did, Toney believe it or not is anther top 100 fighter and so is BHop

I HAVE PERNELL WHITAKER MY TOP 15

Oscar top 100 not as high as others rank him though, the fact is there are fighters from this era that are ATG's , theres just a ton more in the past

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

I don't agree with those rankings.

Those are the same rankings I showed you earlier.

Outside of Forrest being waaaay too high freak your rankings are pretty reasonable.

I don't like moving someone down when they lose to someone higher than them. All these guys could probably beat him but until they do I'll leave him where he is. If Franklin beats him he'll be out of my top 10.

06 Jon Jones
07 Rafael Cavalcante
08 Muhammed Lawal
09 Ryan Bader
10 Gegard Mousasi
11 Randy Couture
12 Dan Henderson
13 Antonio Rogerio Nogueira
14 Rich Franklin
15 Thiago Silva

Don't think Cavalcante is top 10, infact him, Mo and Mousasi all outside the top 10.

yikes Bones behind Forrest/.?