South America and Central America ?

NAFight53 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

NAFight53 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

NAFight53 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Arguello is my favorite fighter. But Roberto Duran was clearly superior. He dominated men his own size, he defeated ATG's up 12 pounds from that. He defeated excellent fighters up 20 pounds and he held his own against one of the top 3-4 middles ever to fight. It's an astonishing resume.

I'd rate Eder Jofre the greatest of the South American fighters just ahead of Carlos Monzon.

Where does Barbados Joe Walcott fall?

How do you think Tony "El Torito" Ayala would've done against Duran ?

Had they fought right before Ayala was jailed? By then Duran is three divisions over his best weight but Ayala really hasn't beaten anybody yet (and never really did). Carlos Hererra was a good, but not a great fighter. My guess is Duran beats him in a rugged fight.

Good question...Ayala (if not mistaken) was only 19 years old when he went to jail...my revised question: If Ayala had stayed out of trouble...would a prime Tony Ayala beat a prime Roberto Duran ?

BTW , Angelo Dundee said (if not mistaken) Tony Ayala could have been an ATG.

A prime Roberto Duran was 135 pounds and Ayala was never below 154. I suspect a 25 year old Ayala with 35 or so fights behind him might have been too big for the 32 year old Duran who fought at 154. But why does[b] Ayala deserve even to have the question asked?[/b] Here's a first requirement to be a great fighter, don't do things that send you to jail for 15 years when you're 20. If a guy isn't even disciplined enough to do THAT, why do we think he would have been disciplined enough to train right, eat right, drink right, follow a fight plan, keep his cool when things got tough in the ring etc to get to even a title, let alone ATGness?

Ayala wasn't missing some element of character tangential to boxing, he was missing one ESSENTIAL to boxing.

What you're saying is that when Duran fought and lost to Benitez, Hagler and Hearns, he was well past his prime ?

BTW, I'm here on a boxing forum to talk boxing, not morals and ethics....his conduct outside the ring was unacceptable..he was and still is being held accoutable for his actions....

When Duran was fighting Benitez, Hagler and Hearns he was at 154 or 160 when his best days were at 135. Duran is 5'6 and has a 66 inch reach. In other words he's smaller than Manny Pacquiao. Duran was giving up at least four inches in height and reach (and nine or more to Hearns and Hagler). He was also over 30 years old with 80 fights behind him. He was certainly not at his peak in those days.

As for Ayala, I'm not talking morals or ethics for their own sake, I am talking the bare minimum behavior that allows one to get in the ring. When one can't even do that, I question why anyone thinks a fighter could have maintained the higher levels of discipline to be a great fighter.