South America and Central America ?

In your opinion, who was the greatest fighter to ever come out of South America ? Central America ?

Robert Duran and Carlos Monzon,

Robert Duran over Alexis Arguello ?

NAFight53 wrote:

Robert Duran over Alexis Arguello ?

As much as I admired Arguello,he's a level below Roberto.

duran is for sure above arguello.

duran is easily the best latino fighter IMO

powerpuncher wrote:

duran is for sure above arguello.

duran is easily the best latino fighter IMO

Both of them had trouble with guys who had movement.

powerpuncher wrote:

duran is for sure above arguello.

duran is easily the best latino fighter IMO

That's a bold statement....did you takle into consideration that Duran lost to Hagler, Hearns, Leonard, Benitez

NAFight53 wrote:

powerpuncher wrote:

duran is for sure above arguello.

duran is easily the best latino fighter IMO

That's a bold statement....did you takle into consideration that Duran lost to Hagler, Hearns, Leonard, Benitez

Those were better caliber fighters than the ones Arguello fought.

Diego408 wrote:

Robert Duran and Carlos Monzon,

...ill agree...arguello is a great one also but..its limited to two..

Arguello is my favorite fighter. But Roberto Duran was clearly superior. He dominated men his own size, he defeated ATG's up 12 pounds from that. He defeated excellent fighters up 20 pounds and he held his own against one of the top 3-4 middles ever to fight. It's an astonishing resume.

I'd rate Eder Jofre the greatest of the South American fighters just ahead of Carlos Monzon.

Where does Barbados Joe Walcott fall?

WinstonSmith wrote:

powerpuncher wrote:

duran is for sure above arguello.

duran is easily the best latino fighter IMO

Both of them had trouble with guys who had movement.

Yeah and 90% of the time they ended up still beating them. In some ways that is the mark of a truly great fighter. You're reduced to talking about not who they lost to, but merely when they struggled.

Robert Duran- the no mas fight. Or as I always refer to it, "fuck you Ray, I'm sick of your shit."

NAFight53 wrote:

powerpuncher wrote:

duran is for sure above arguello.

duran is easily the best latino fighter IMO

That's a bold statement....did you takle into consideration that Duran lost to Hagler, Hearns, Leonard, Benitez

some of the greatest fighters to ever live and duran moved up in weight to fight them all. hearns was just the completely wrong style for duran especially since he moved up so much weight. close fight with hagler, a middleweight, who is one of the best middleweights of all time. he beat leonard in their first fight and he lost one. benitez just fought a good fight and it was close. arguello moved up and in weight and fought aaron pryor and lost and he wasnt as good as any of those 4 fighters duran lost to.

Central America- Duran

South American- Monzon

Ricardo Mayorga and Carlos Baldomir.

I agree with NJ.

Mayorga was the greatest Central American trashtalker

"Fernando looks like he's on girls hormones, he ate too many fucking cheeseburgers"

LOL

The lead-up to Mayorga-Vargas was better than any of the 24/7's

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Arguello is my favorite fighter. But Roberto Duran was clearly superior. He dominated men his own size, he defeated ATG's up 12 pounds from that. He defeated excellent fighters up 20 pounds and he held his own against one of the top 3-4 middles ever to fight. It's an astonishing resume.

I'd rate Eder Jofre the greatest of the South American fighters just ahead of Carlos Monzon.

Where does Barbados Joe Walcott fall?

How do you think Tony "El Torito" Ayala would've done against Duran ?

NAFight53 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Arguello is my favorite fighter. But Roberto Duran was clearly superior. He dominated men his own size, he defeated ATG's up 12 pounds from that. He defeated excellent fighters up 20 pounds and he held his own against one of the top 3-4 middles ever to fight. It's an astonishing resume.

I'd rate Eder Jofre the greatest of the South American fighters just ahead of Carlos Monzon.

Where does Barbados Joe Walcott fall?

How do you think Tony "El Torito" Ayala would've done against Duran ?

Had they fought right before Ayala was jailed? By then Duran is three divisions over his best weight but Ayala really hasn't beaten anybody yet (and never really did). Carlos Hererra was a good, but not a great fighter. My guess is Duran beats him in a rugged fight.

if anyone can rough up a young Ayala it was Manos de Pedria

marbleheadmaui wrote:

NAFight53 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Arguello is my favorite fighter. But Roberto Duran was clearly superior. He dominated men his own size, he defeated ATG's up 12 pounds from that. He defeated excellent fighters up 20 pounds and he held his own against one of the top 3-4 middles ever to fight. It's an astonishing resume.

I'd rate Eder Jofre the greatest of the South American fighters just ahead of Carlos Monzon.

Where does Barbados Joe Walcott fall?

How do you think Tony "El Torito" Ayala would've done against Duran ?

Had they fought right before Ayala was jailed? By then Duran is three divisions over his best weight but Ayala really hasn't beaten anybody yet (and never really did). Carlos Hererra was a good, but not a great fighter. My guess is Duran beats him in a rugged fight.

Good question...Ayala (if not mistaken) was only 19 years old when he went to jail...my revised question: If Ayala had stayed out of trouble...would a prime Tony Ayala beat a prime Roberto Duran ?

BTW , Angelo Dundee said (if not mistaken) Tony Ayala could have been an ATG.

I think the legend grows with each passing generation, but it sounds like Torito whopped the shit out of Pipino Cuevas in a sparring session when Torito was 15.

NAFight53 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

NAFight53 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Arguello is my favorite fighter. But Roberto Duran was clearly superior. He dominated men his own size, he defeated ATG's up 12 pounds from that. He defeated excellent fighters up 20 pounds and he held his own against one of the top 3-4 middles ever to fight. It's an astonishing resume.

I'd rate Eder Jofre the greatest of the South American fighters just ahead of Carlos Monzon.

Where does Barbados Joe Walcott fall?

How do you think Tony "El Torito" Ayala would've done against Duran ?

Had they fought right before Ayala was jailed? By then Duran is three divisions over his best weight but Ayala really hasn't beaten anybody yet (and never really did). Carlos Hererra was a good, but not a great fighter. My guess is Duran beats him in a rugged fight.

Good question...Ayala (if not mistaken) was only 19 years old when he went to jail...my revised question: If Ayala had stayed out of trouble...would a prime Tony Ayala beat a prime Roberto Duran ?

BTW , Angelo Dundee said (if not mistaken) Tony Ayala could have been an ATG.

A prime Roberto Duran was 135 pounds and Ayala was never below 154. I suspect a 25 year old Ayala with 35 or so fights behind him might have been too big for the 32 year old Duran who fought at 154. But why does Ayala deserve even to have the question asked? Here's a first requirement to be a great fighter, don't do things that send you to jail for 15 years when you're 20. If a guy isn't even disciplined enough to do THAT, why do we think he would have been disciplined enough to train right, eat right, drink right, follow a fight plan, keep his cool when things got tough in the ring etc to get to even a title, let alone ATGness?

Ayala wasn't missing some element of character tangential to boxing, he was missing one ESSENTIAL to boxing.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

NAFight53 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

NAFight53 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Arguello is my favorite fighter. But Roberto Duran was clearly superior. He dominated men his own size, he defeated ATG's up 12 pounds from that. He defeated excellent fighters up 20 pounds and he held his own against one of the top 3-4 middles ever to fight. It's an astonishing resume.

I'd rate Eder Jofre the greatest of the South American fighters just ahead of Carlos Monzon.

Where does Barbados Joe Walcott fall?

How do you think Tony "El Torito" Ayala would've done against Duran ?

Had they fought right before Ayala was jailed? By then Duran is three divisions over his best weight but Ayala really hasn't beaten anybody yet (and never really did). Carlos Hererra was a good, but not a great fighter. My guess is Duran beats him in a rugged fight.

Good question...Ayala (if not mistaken) was only 19 years old when he went to jail...my revised question: If Ayala had stayed out of trouble...would a prime Tony Ayala beat a prime Roberto Duran ?

BTW , Angelo Dundee said (if not mistaken) Tony Ayala could have been an ATG.

A prime Roberto Duran was 135 pounds and Ayala was never below 154. I suspect a 25 year old Ayala with 35 or so fights behind him might have been too big for the 32 year old Duran who fought at 154. But why does[b] Ayala deserve even to have the question asked?[/b] Here's a first requirement to be a great fighter, don't do things that send you to jail for 15 years when you're 20. If a guy isn't even disciplined enough to do THAT, why do we think he would have been disciplined enough to train right, eat right, drink right, follow a fight plan, keep his cool when things got tough in the ring etc to get to even a title, let alone ATGness?

Ayala wasn't missing some element of character tangential to boxing, he was missing one ESSENTIAL to boxing.

What you're saying is that when Duran fought and lost to Benitez, Hagler and Hearns, he was well past his prime ?

BTW, I'm here on a boxing forum to talk boxing, not morals and ethics....his conduct outside the ring was unacceptable..he was and still is being held accoutable for his actions....