Michael Bisping vs Mark Munoz (who wins?)

How about the great takedown defense by Kendall Grove? Munoz has without a doubt better credentials wrestling wise than Boetsch, Reljic, Rosholt, Almeida, or Maia. Yet every single one of those guys took Kendall Grove down more times than Munoz did, and most of them had more takedowns on less attempts inside of two rounds even.

In today's MMA game if you can't set up your shot your going to get stuffed a good deal of the time.

OU wrote:

Ludo wrote:

OU wrote:

That has to be one of the most misleading and pointless stats I have ever seen in MMA. You can say that Munoz has got every single person he has fought to the ground. Conversely Bisping has been taken down by everyone with even the slightest wrestling ability that has attempted a take down. We already established he hasn't been facing murders row of wrestlers.
The facts remain, Munoz can take Bisping down. Also look at the progression, Munoz seems to be putting things together better and his numbers are showing it. His takedowns have gone up in recent fights. He didn't have time to take CB down since he ended that fight before it started.

What progression? Chris Leben kept getting up. Maia hasn't had the best takedown defense because he doesn't give a shit about being on the bottom, he wants to go to the ground anyway.

Also the "his last two fights yield a 50% success rate" notion is laughable. He was fighting Chris Leben for god sakes. Leben has only ever defended about half the takedowns ever thrown at him. If Chris Leben as drained as he was could get up 4 or 5 times what do you think a consistently in shape Bisping is going to do, assuming Munoz can even get him down?

About as laughable as the Bisping has 14 (T)KO victories. About as laughable as the TDD stat for Bisping. Just one look at the competition will put that to rest. Are you really suggesting Munoz can't get Bisping to the ground?

This is not the question OU. But will Munoz go Chael Sonnen on Bisping? I dunno about that. And maybe more precisely(at least in terms of my interest in this discussion) does Bisping stand zero chance(as U and Freak suggest) in this fight? And I say no, he stands a pretty good chance here, he's pretty good, and Munoz has not proven himself a world beater.

captain organic wrote:

OU wrote:

Ludo wrote:

OU wrote:

That has to be one of the most misleading and pointless stats I have ever seen in MMA. You can say that Munoz has got every single person he has fought to the ground. Conversely Bisping has been taken down by everyone with even the slightest wrestling ability that has attempted a take down. We already established he hasn't been facing murders row of wrestlers.
The facts remain, Munoz can take Bisping down. Also look at the progression, Munoz seems to be putting things together better and his numbers are showing it. His takedowns have gone up in recent fights. He didn't have time to take CB down since he ended that fight before it started.

What progression? Chris Leben kept getting up. Maia hasn't had the best takedown defense because he doesn't give a shit about being on the bottom, he wants to go to the ground anyway.

Also the "his last two fights yield a 50% success rate" notion is laughable. He was fighting Chris Leben for god sakes. Leben has only ever defended about half the takedowns ever thrown at him. If Chris Leben as drained as he was could get up 4 or 5 times what do you think a consistently in shape Bisping is going to do, assuming Munoz can even get him down?

About as laughable as the Bisping has 14 (T)KO victories. About as laughable as the TDD stat for Bisping. Just one look at the competition will put that to rest. Are you really suggesting Munoz can't get Bisping to the ground?

This is not the question OU. But will Munoz go Chael Sonnen on Bisping? I dunno about that. And maybe more precisely(at least in terms of my interest in this discussion) does Bisping stand zero chance(as U and Freak suggest) in this fight? And I say no, he stands a pretty good chance here, he's pretty good, and Munoz has not proven himself a world beater.

+1

Where did I say Bisping stands zero chance? I just said Munoz is better. I have it 80-20 to Munoz. He doesn't have to be a world beater to beat Bisping though.

Well I think Munoz is better then every single fighter Bisping has beaten in his career. Everyone he hold a legit win(Hamill was a loss) against, I would say Munoz is better than. IF Bisping was to win that fight, it would be the best win on his resume IMO. I would not say the same thing about Munoz if he beats Bisping. I wouldn't consider that to be his best win to date. Overall though neither guy has impressive wins on their resume. Munoz obviously posses the power advantage in this matchup. He obviously posses the advantage on the ground. He is the only one that even has the ability to dictate where the fight takes place. If one of these guys was to submit the other, it would be Munoz. If one of these guys was going to knock the other one out, it would be Munoz. If one of these guys was going to win with GnP, it would be Munoz. If one of them was going to use dominate positioning to win on points, it would be Munoz. Bisping would have to outpoint Munoz on the feet or accumulate enough damage over time to stop the fight. Munoz has more ways to win this fight. Munoz is the only one that can finish this fight no matter where it takes place.

Not 1 person on this board has Bisping higher than Munoz in their rankings and the poll is clearly in favour of Munoz!

This is a really tough call. I can't seem to make a pick. Bisping could win a decision by scoring more on the feet and making Munoz work real hard for takedowns only to have Mike get right back up or Mark could win via KO or decision by keeping the fight on the cage or on the mat. I just don't know

OU, what Munoz win would be better than Bisping?

bobbitt15 wrote:

OU, what Munoz win would be better than Bisping?

Maia.

freakzilla wrote:

Not 1 person on this board has Bisping higher than Munoz in their rankings and the poll is clearly in favour of Munoz!

Bisping would be lucky to win a poll on here against anyone

As far as rankings, everyone has Stann ahead of Paul too most likely. Doesn't mean they wouldn't pick him to get his leg ripped off

OU wrote:

bobbitt15 wrote:

OU, what Munoz win would be better than Bisping?

Maia.

Understandable. I was definitely planning on picking Bisping there pre injury shuffle though

bobbitt15 wrote:

OU wrote:

bobbitt15 wrote:

OU, what Munoz win would be better than Bisping?

Maia.

Understandable. I was definitely planning on picking Bisping there pre injury shuffle though

I think Maia would roll Bisping up with quickness. But I'm under the impression that even Maia can get Bisping to the ground. He did get your boy Chael down and dominate him quickly when it hit the ground. I think Maia is improving at a much better rate then Bisping.

Bisping would fuck Maia up. Maia has worked on standup for the last 2 years and as a result his takedowns and subs have suffered. Same reason Lesnar and Maynard cant get guys down now. Maia has very judo oriented takedowns and that also hurts him. He isn't the submission phenom anymore. Some of our members are losing the ability to analyze the sport. Munoz has been flat out awful in many fights wrestling wise. OU is completely out to lunch in this(and most) threads.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Bisping would fuck Maia up. Maia has worked on standup for the last 2 years and as a result his takedowns and subs have suffered. Same reason Lesnar and Maynard cant get guys down now. Maia has very judo oriented takedowns and that also hurts him. He isn't the submission phenom anymore. Some of our members are losing the ability to analyze the sport. Munoz has been flat out awful in many fights wrestling wise. OU is completely out to lunch in this(and most) threads.

You are so LOL these days it's not even funny. You thought Leben was going to beat Munoz, how did that work out for you? What about Pettis vs Guida? Yeah you are so awesome at analyzing this sport. You are such a noob these days that you aren't even worth debating with. HDNet has no content now right? Get your game together son, let the real fans talk it out.

I know B atleast still watches the fights, not just Zuffa fights but B is an active MMA fan with actual knowledge. I don't know what you are anymore Wolf, but you damn sure aren't anywhere near the level you once were. You currently have the MMA insight equivalent to that of Freak.

Look at OU getting butthurt. Its no big deal. At this point I barely read what you say. This site is a waste of time. Delete my account. I'm going to the The Palace of Pussies.. Byeeee.

Look at OU getting butthurt. Its no big deal. At this point I barely read what you say. This site is a waste of time. Delete my account. I'm going to the The Palace of Pussies.. Byeeee.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Look at OU getting butthurt. Its no big deal. At this point I barely read what you say. This site is a waste of time. Delete my account. I'm going to the The Palace of Pussies.. Byeeee.

It's not like at this point you even attempt to add anything here. You by your own admission barely watch MMA anymore. You don't attack posters or do anything entertaining anymore. So what good are you? No substance of any kind. No effort. You are a zombie, been dead for awhile now. Come on now let's flame, atleast you can do is entertain me.

Based on the noise you are constantly blithering you don't watch mma either.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Based on the noise you are constantly blithering you don't watch mma either.

Weak sauce son. You think I'm the only one that thinks Maia is a better fighter then Bisping? They are pretty close in most MMA rankings. I think not just this sight but most sites could put up a poll and Maia would get his fair share of votes. Exactly when did Maia lose his BJJ skills again? So he was a BJJ Phenom but he isn't now? Exactly when did that happen? We have made it very clear over the past you don't have the balls to regularly pick fights. Something B is extremely good at, that and he clearly watches MMA, so he has respect. But you? You come in, in spurts and are more of a walking punchline these days. Who will Wolf overreact to today?

I will agree that Maia is the better overall fighter and deserves to be ranked higher than Bisping but styles make fights. Bisping would treat Maia alot like he did Akiyama since Maia isn't a double leg wizard and never was, the Dan Miller fight not withstanding. K-1 Maia gets 30-27'd standing a good deal of the time.

Who was the last fighter Maia subbed? For someone who watches fights you're as awful as it gets. Your analysis this whole thread is painful to read.

Bisping is about the most underrated fighter in history.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Who was the last fighter Maia subbed? For someone who watches fights you're as awful as it gets. Your analysis this whole thread is painful to read.

So that means he no longer possess the skills? Would you also say Rampage doesn't posses to ability to knock someone out? Maia is progressing as a fighter but you are a fool if you think his BJJ just disappeared. He goes out and subs 3 fighters in a row would anyone really be surprised?

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Bisping is about the most underrated fighter in history.

Based on what wins? What wins does Bisping hold that would suggest he is underrated? Did you sing this same tone when he was TKO'd by Wandy? Weren't you the one that said Wandy actually won that fight by TKO? What was the Bisping love at that point? What are his key wins that everyone is ignoring? You have been horribly wrong before, recently in fact, you are wrong here again.