Best Japanese fighter ever?

captain organic wrote:

Dana is so hard to listen to. Not only are the majority of Okami's wins from pre UFC, but the majority of his UFC wins are very soft. Singer, Lister Linhares?

Dana might have a point in Okami being one of the best Jap's of all time, and maybe one day he could reach the pinnacle, but u need to have better wins then Nate and Munoz to take this title.

I'll roll with the guy who has wins over Rampage, Gracie, Vitor and Mezger.

Why do people idolize a guy who refuses to be honest?

His job is to sell PPV's. Not be honest. Yo.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

captain organic wrote:

Dana is so hard to listen to. Not only are the majority of Okami's wins from pre UFC, but the majority of his UFC wins are very soft. Singer, Lister Linhares?

Dana might have a point in Okami being one of the best Jap's of all time, and maybe one day he could reach the pinnacle, but u need to have better wins then Nate and Munoz to take this title.

I'll roll with the guy who has wins over Rampage, Gracie, Vitor and Mezger.

Why do people idolize a guy who refuses to be honest?

His job is to sell PPV's. Not be honest. Yo.

and we as fans have every right to call him out on it... which we have

Wolfgangsta wrote:

captain organic wrote:

Dana is so hard to listen to. Not only are the majority of Okami's wins from pre UFC, but the majority of his UFC wins are very soft. Singer, Lister Linhares?

Dana might have a point in Okami being one of the best Jap's of all time, and maybe one day he could reach the pinnacle, but u need to have better wins then Nate and Munoz to take this title.

I'll roll with the guy who has wins over Rampage, Gracie, Vitor and Mezger.

Why do people idolize a guy who refuses to be honest?

His job is to sell PPV's. Not be honest. Yo.

Doesn't make it any less annoying to listen to some of that garbage. He is selling the PPVs to the casual fans, we ALL get that. Understood. But those same words make the hardcore fans LOL or roll their eyes. He can say what he wants, but people who know better can comment on the BS.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

captain organic wrote:

Dana is so hard to listen to. Not only are the majority of Okami's wins from pre UFC, but the majority of his UFC wins are very soft. Singer, Lister Linhares?

Dana might have a point in Okami being one of the best Jap's of all time, and maybe one day he could reach the pinnacle, but u need to have better wins then Nate and Munoz to take this title.

I'll roll with the guy who has wins over Rampage, Gracie, Vitor and Mezger.

Why do people idolize a guy who refuses to be honest?

His job is to sell PPV's. Not be honest. Yo.

Well it's a sellable point. I wouldn't think someone is lying if they said that Okami is the best fighter to come out of Japan. It's a defendable point.

And those are wins over a green Rampage, a 1-dimensional Gracie, a bizzare Vitor [he wouldn't fight, fishy], and a hobbled Guy Mezger. If you knew anything about MMA history, then you would know the Mezger deal was one of the most crooked ever, and it's stories like that that make people question the legitimacy of Pride records. Point to the wins over Carlos Newton, Kevin Randleman, and Renzo Gracie if you want to establish Sakuraba's legacy.

Okami fought Franklin to a near stand-still and Sonnen has said repeatedly that OKami was his toughest fight. Beat Evan Tanner, granted an older one, but still game, and Marquardt and Munoz are really, really good MWs. Not to mention Alan Belcher, and a streaking Jason MacDonald, and Mike Swick. His UFC record is way better than you are giving him credit for.

Nate, Munoz, Belcher pale in comparison. I don't even see this as debateable.

boomer sooner wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

captain organic wrote:

Dana is so hard to listen to. Not only are the majority of Okami's wins from pre UFC, but the majority of his UFC wins are very soft. Singer, Lister Linhares?

Dana might have a point in Okami being one of the best Jap's of all time, and maybe one day he could reach the pinnacle, but u need to have better wins then Nate and Munoz to take this title.

I'll roll with the guy who has wins over Rampage, Gracie, Vitor and Mezger.

Why do people idolize a guy who refuses to be honest?

His job is to sell PPV's. Not be honest. Yo.

Well it's a sellable point. I wouldn't think someone is lying if they said that Okami is the best fighter to come out of Japan. It's a defendable point.

And those are wins over a green Rampage, a 1-dimensional Gracie, a bizzare Vitor [he wouldn't fight, fishy], and a hobbled Guy Mezger. If you knew anything about MMA history, then you would know the Mezger deal was one of the most crooked ever, and it's stories like that that make people question the legitimacy of Pride records. Point to the wins over Carlos Newton, Kevin Randleman, and Renzo Gracie if you want to establish Sakuraba's legacy.

Okami fought Franklin to a near stand-still and Sonnen has said repeatedly that OKami was his toughest fight. Beat Evan Tanner, granted an older one, but still game, and Marquardt and Munoz are really, really good MWs. Not to mention Alan Belcher, and a streaking Jason MacDonald, and Mike Swick. His UFC record is way better than you are giving him credit for.

it's alright to say this BUT to say what he said about "other" japanese stars building up their career against cans and unworthy opponents is just ridiculous, i mean go look at Sakus record...

captain organic wrote:

Nate, Munoz, Belcher pale in comparison. I don't even see this as debateable.

Well, it can't be argued by a guy who just looks at records like you. The great Sakuraba wins you pointed to were all foul.

Those were legit wins over top ten guys by Okami. Nate was behind Silva and Sonnen at MW at the time when Okami took him out. Munoz is clearly a contender, and Belcher has always been one of the division's greatest warriors. Not to mention knocking Swick and MacDonald off of their streaks. Stopping Evan Tanner, and close decisions to Franklin and Sonnen [notice how he doesn't get his face smashed in against the best in the division, he can actually put up a fight, which is more than can be said for Sakuraba against Arona and Wanderlei].

And you know what, part of your argument is correct. Sakuraba fought in a time when commissions were ignored and they would throw guys at each other, weight class be damned. You can't punish Okami because he didn't fight during that time. He's basically fought all MWs, while Sakuraba was all over the map, making Kazushi's record look grander, but look closer and it isn't as impressive as everyone screams.

killerofchicken wrote:

boomer sooner wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

captain organic wrote:

Dana is so hard to listen to. Not only are the majority of Okami's wins from pre UFC, but the majority of his UFC wins are very soft. Singer, Lister Linhares?

Dana might have a point in Okami being one of the best Jap's of all time, and maybe one day he could reach the pinnacle, but u need to have better wins then Nate and Munoz to take this title.

I'll roll with the guy who has wins over Rampage, Gracie, Vitor and Mezger.

Why do people idolize a guy who refuses to be honest?

His job is to sell PPV's. Not be honest. Yo.

Well it's a sellable point. I wouldn't think someone is lying if they said that Okami is the best fighter to come out of Japan. It's a defendable point.

And those are wins over a green Rampage, a 1-dimensional Gracie, a bizzare Vitor [he wouldn't fight, fishy], and a hobbled Guy Mezger. If you knew anything about MMA history, then you would know the Mezger deal was one of the most crooked ever, and it's stories like that that make people question the legitimacy of Pride records. Point to the wins over Carlos Newton, Kevin Randleman, and Renzo Gracie if you want to establish Sakuraba's legacy.

Okami fought Franklin to a near stand-still and Sonnen has said repeatedly that OKami was his toughest fight. Beat Evan Tanner, granted an older one, but still game, and Marquardt and Munoz are really, really good MWs. Not to mention Alan Belcher, and a streaking Jason MacDonald, and Mike Swick. His UFC record is way better than you are giving him credit for.

it's alright to say this BUT to say what he said about "other" japanese stars building up their career against cans and unworthy opponents is just ridiculous, i mean go look at Sakus record...

Pride was crooked. Countless Pride fighters have come and said it. THat's not to say all the fights were fixed, but some you could see. Did you see Belfort v. Sakuraba? Completely bizzare. Mezger fought him with a broken foot and then Pride changed a rule on the spot putting a loss up for Mezger. And Jackson v. Sakuraba didn't resemble MMA. I think maybe two punches were thrown.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

captain organic wrote:

Dana is so hard to listen to. Not only are the majority of Okami's wins from pre UFC, but the majority of his UFC wins are very soft. Singer, Lister Linhares?

Dana might have a point in Okami being one of the best Jap's of all time, and maybe one day he could reach the pinnacle, but u need to have better wins then Nate and Munoz to take this title.

I'll roll with the guy who has wins over Rampage, Gracie, Vitor and Mezger.

Why do people idolize a guy who refuses to be honest?

His job is to sell PPV's. Not be honest. Yo.

Ding

Now Page vs Saku was not even MMA?


And being as how Belfort threw about 10x's as many punches in the first 5 minutes vs Saku then he did vs Spider, can I then assume that Belfort vs Spider was fixed?

can I argue that all of Saku's losses were "fishy" as well? certainly he would have beaten Wandy all 3 times if Wandy were not on the juice.

Wtf?

I don't agree with what he's saying there, but there's never been anything to suggest UFC fights were even close to fixed, can't say the same for fights in Japan, so don't bring UFC fights into it.

captain organic wrote:

Now Page vs Saku was not even MMA?


And being as how Belfort threw about 10x's as many punches in the first 5 minutes vs Saku then he did vs Spider, can I then assume that Belfort vs Spider was fixed?

can I argue that all of Saku's losses were "fishy" as well? certainly he would have beaten Wandy all 3 times if Wandy were not on the juice.

Wtf?

Belfort threw a dozen arm-punches and none of them landed. That sounds like Vitor. Then he pulled guard and laid on his back the rest of the fight. Yeah, that's not fishy.

And I didn't say Rampage's fight wasn't MMA. It just didn't play out like one. Seriously it looked closer to a WWF wrestling match with maybe two strikes thrown.

boomer sooner wrote:

captain organic wrote:

Now Page vs Saku was not even MMA?


And being as how Belfort threw about 10x's as many punches in the first 5 minutes vs Saku then he did vs Spider, can I then assume that Belfort vs Spider was fixed?

can I argue that all of Saku's losses were "fishy" as well? certainly he would have beaten Wandy all 3 times if Wandy were not on the juice.

Wtf?

Belfort threw a dozen arm-punches and none of them landed. That sounds like Vitor. Then he pulled guard and laid on his back the rest of the fight. Yeah, that's not fishy.

And I didn't say Rampage's fight wasn't MMA. It just didn't play out like one. Seriously it looked closer to a WWF wrestling match with maybe two strikes thrown.

go watch Vitor vs Reem 2 and count the amount of times Vitor pulls guard...

here actually, don't have to do any work, ill find it for u

and after all that... he thought he won!

That fight doesn't help my case at all, I can admit that. But he was flopping for different reasons. One was to avoid Overeem's vicious assault. The other was for...I don't know what.

boomer sooner wrote:

That fight doesn't help my case at all, I can admit that. But he was flopping for different reasons. One was to avoid Overeem's vicious assault. The other was for...I don't know what.

you have to counter in Vitors mental state of mind, which was never that strong back in the day...

Vicious assaults? Did we just watch the same video?

The play book on Vitor was always: get past that first wave, and he will crumble. Saku made it threw the first wave, and Vitor crumbled.

I vote ....

In full Lenne Hardt fashion

Kazushi Sakurabababababaaaa!!!!!

"What was this discussion about again? i forget...there is no more discussion? thats what i thought"

LOL great bump

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/8/31/2396794/dana-white-talks-kazushi-sakuraba-ufc-professionalism-after-the-fox

Quote :

"I’m a huge Sakuraba fan. The problem with the Sakuraba story is, Sakuraba should have fought at 170 pounds instead of doing all these Japanese freak show fights where they got him destroyed by guys who were two weight classes heavier than him. So, it goes unanswered whether Kazushi Sakuraba could have been the greatest fighter to ever come out of Japan. The Japanese ruined him!

"It’s just like any other sport that starts out in the beginning. Guys that were great that you try to compare ‘em to different eras and, you know, like I told you — (I’m a) huge Sakuraba fan and it’s unfortunate that his career wasn’t handled in the right way where we could have found out if this guy was possibly the best fighter ever in Japanese history and I don’t disagree with you at all that he was a huge superstar and definitely put, you know, it on the map, not only in Japan but in the rest of the world."

I guess there goes the defense of "Dana is just hyping the PPV". His explanation is weak sauce and after this weekend we are reminded why Saku truly is the best Japanese fighter EVA!

Okami losing to the greatest of all-time really doesn't do much to influence the voting for me

bobbitt15 wrote:

Okami losing to the greatest of all-time really doesn't do much to influence the voting for me

So you still think Okami should be viewed as the better Japanese fighter?

I still feel the same as I did before. Don't think I definitively said who the best was