Tyson vs Holyfield I

What are your thoughts on this fight? Should it have been stopped when it did? Did Holyfield plan those headbutts? What did you think about the whole fight?

I think Holyfield took it to Mike and remained unfazed with the normal intimidation stuff that usually would work for Mike. Tyson threw pretty much one punch at a time and Holyfield was able to counter punch and stun Tyson which set up his combination's, thus resulting in Holyfield winning rounds. Holyfield if you remember, was able to push Tyson around as well. He seemed stronger than Mike, which I believe surprised Tyson who thought he would be able to impose his strength on the smaller Holyfield. The headbutts in my opinion were just as much a result as Mike lunging in to score a one punch KO as anything Holyfield had "planned". Tyson was almost out at the end of the tenth and showed nothing in the eleventh that warranted the fight going on. It was a good stoppage that was not protested.

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

What are your thoughts on this fight? Should it have been stopped when it did? Did Holyfield plan those headbutts? What did you think about the whole fight?

The fight was well stopped. Tyson was about to be killed. I think it was the 10th round. Evander brilliantly tested him with jabs and saw he had no legs under him. That's when he went for the kill. If you watch closely, the uppercut that drove Tyson against the ropes put him up in the air. Once Evander opened up, I don't know that I've ever seen one ref that would let that fight go on (Well, I think I know one. You guys that saw "Roberto Duran vs. Davey Moore" know what I'm talking about.).

Yes, Van fought a dirty fight. In this instance, he was justified. Tyson loves headbutts and low blows. However, Holyfield has always been a dirty figther and headbutted way too much following the Tyson fight. He would come in with a left and follow through with the head. A one-two punch with the head being the end of the combo.

Actually, watching that Tyson - Holyfield fight was a great time for me. Loved every minute of it. Good fight.

I thought Holyfield planned the headbutts all along and he really hurt Tyson with them.

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

I thought Holyfield planned the headbutts all along and he really hurt Tyson with them.

Good point. Those were rehearsed. They were brilliantly delivered behind the left hook. You can't be that precise without practice. Somebody should say a small prayer for Van's sparring partners. However, don't forget that Tyson fights south of the rulebook as well. He's just not the smart fighter Van is. Following the Tyson fight, I was really turned off by Evander's constant head butting. There's no getting around it. Evander Holyfield was a dirty fighter. Foreman said he was the dirtiest fighter he ever fought, though watching that fight I personally have trouble seeing what Foreman is talking about. It was clear to me in his (Van's) fights following the Tyson victory.

Another way to look at it is the level of competition in the four fights prior facing one another

Tyson:
Peter McNeely
Buster Mathis Jr.
Frank Bruno
Bruce Seldon

Holyfield:
Michael Moorer
Ray Mercer
Riddick Bowe
Bobby Czyz

With the exception of Czyz (who's best years and weights were behind him when he met Holyfield, still not a bad tuneup) all of Holyfields opponents were at one time respectable champions and ranked opponents. Tyson's opponents, not so much. Holyfield's losses served him better than Tyson's wins. Let's also look to Tyson's corner. His trainer at the time was Jay Bright, a Cus D'Mato go-fer. Holyfield was trained by Lou Duva. Holyfield was better prepared, fought the better competition and out hustled and out thought Tyson. Blame it on headbutts all you want but Holyfield was the better man.

Yeah, that's why I couldn't understand the Holyfield love. I became an even bigger Lewis fan after the Tyson-Holyfield fights and I was glad Lewis beat him.

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

Yeah, that's why I couldn't understand the Holyfield love. I became an even bigger Lewis fan after the Tyson-Holyfield fights and I was glad Lewis beat him.

Why not? He was an undersized guy that moved up and fought the best competition available. He never showed up out of shape and left it all in the ring every time he fought. If anything why the Tyson love (I'm not a Tyson hater btw)? He's quit before, showed up out of shape and made a mockery of some of the fights he was in.

hardcoreBEE24 wrote:

Another way to look at it is the level of competition in the four fights prior facing one another

Tyson:
Peter McNeely
Buster Mathis Jr.
Frank Bruno
Bruce Seldon

Holyfield:
Michael Moorer
Ray Mercer
Riddick Bowe
Bobby Czyz

With the exception of Czyz (who's best years and weights were behind him when he met Holyfield, still not a bad tuneup) all of Holyfields opponents were at one time respectable champions and ranked opponents. Tyson's opponents, not so much. Holyfield's losses served him better than Tyson's wins. Let's also look to Tyson's corner. His trainer at the time was Jay Bright, a Cus D'Mato go-fer. Holyfield was trained by Lou Duva. Holyfield was better prepared, fought the better competition and out hustled and out thought Tyson. Blame it on headbutts all you want but Holyfield was the better man.

I never said Tyson was the better fighter. All I said was Holyfield planned those headbutts and they slowed Tyson down. Holyfield would've probably won either way but you can't deny those headbutts helped.

hardcoreBEE24 wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

Yeah, that's why I couldn't understand the Holyfield love. I became an even bigger Lewis fan after the Tyson-Holyfield fights and I was glad Lewis beat him.

Why not? He was an undersized guy that moved up and fought the best competition available. He never showed up out of shape and left it all in the ring every time he fought. If anything why the Tyson love (I'm not a Tyson hater btw)? He's quit before, showed up out of shape and made a mockery of some of the fights he was in.

Holyfield was a very dirty fighter.

hardcoreBEE24 wrote:

Another way to look at it is the level of competition in the four fights prior facing one another

Tyson:
Peter McNeely
Buster Mathis Jr.
Frank Bruno
Bruce Seldon

Holyfield:
Michael Moorer
Ray Mercer
Riddick Bowe
Bobby Czyz

With the exception of Czyz (who's best years and weights were behind him when he met Holyfield, still not a bad tuneup) all of Holyfields opponents were at one time respectable champions and ranked opponents. Tyson's opponents, not so much. Holyfield's losses served him better than Tyson's wins. Let's also look to Tyson's corner. His trainer at the time was Jay Bright, a Cus D'Mato go-fer. Holyfield was trained by Lou Duva. Holyfield was better prepared, fought the better competition and out hustled and out thought Tyson. Blame it on headbutts all you want but Holyfield was the better man.

Hardcore, all your info is spot on. I'm with you. Nevertheless, Van was a dirty fighter. That said, anyone approaching a fight with Mike Tyson without a plan to break the rules deserves the beating they get. Holyfield was a better fighter than Mike Tyson. Foreman would've made fast work of Mike. Lewis did. I don't think Bowe would've had a big problem with Mike once the fight got into the later rounds. All the warriors mentioned above were fought effectively by Evander.

By the way, I agree with Freakzilla. Evander never actually needed the headbutts against Mike Tyson or anyone else. Why did he use them? That's a question for him. I was never able to make any sense out it. Yes, they helped against Tyson however the Tyson fight might as well been over after the first round. This was when Tyson came with a dynamite right and rocked Evander. Evander came back, drove Tyson to the ropes and punished him. Mike had another moment in the 5th round but that was it.

Just someting to think about. After Tyson's first fight with Razor Ruddock, their was a post fight interview between the two. The following dialogue occured: Razor: "Mike, you weren't hitting me low? You weren't headbutting me?" / Tyson: "You should've hit me low and headbutted me back.": I personally agreed and so did Evander.

I actually thought Tyson would/should've low blowed Holyfield after those headbutts.

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

hardcoreBEE24 wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

Yeah, that's why I couldn't understand the Holyfield love. I became an even bigger Lewis fan after the Tyson-Holyfield fights and I was glad Lewis beat him.

Why not? He was an undersized guy that moved up and fought the best competition available. He never showed up out of shape and left it all in the ring every time he fought. If anything why the Tyson love (I'm not a Tyson hater btw)? He's quit before, showed up out of shape and made a mockery of some of the fights he was in.

Holyfield was a very dirty fighter.

So what? It's boxing not a dance. Part of the sport or any sport is getting away with stuff the referee doesn't see. Let's take a look at John Stockton in basketball. Almost every year he was voted as one of the dirtiest players in the game but that is part of what made him great.

Mike Tyson was by no means a clean fighter either.