Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: United States behind 9/11

Wolfgangsta wrote:

The existence of religious wackos in that of itself is hardly justification for this dumb "war on terror" on the scale we've fought it on. I cannot believe you're literally arguing this.

There is absolutely nothing stone-throwing jihadists with rusty ak47s can do to us. Certainly not enough to justify the complete trampling of the constitution, removal of our rights, and war crimes we've committed.


Our relationship and support of Israel's war crimes against the Palestinians, and our interventionist policy are the sole reason terrorists exist, or have a voice anyway. I can tell from the short time speaking with you that you'll say they'd exist anyway, and you're probably right, but they wouldn't have a voice. And new ones wouldn't spring up. "Wackoism" doesn't just randomly infect vast parts of the world for no reason as you're assuming here. They're nut jobs, they're crazies, they're fruitcakes with no rational beef. You really expect me to believe thousands of people randomly go crazy in unison in such a fashion? How do you believe this?

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Under our own American moral definitions of good and evil, we are technically evil.



I asked you a question before and didn't see an answer. Jimbo, do not reply unless this is answered. Are you a Christian? How do you view our relationship with Israel in terms of your religious values? Do not shrink away from your views in light of what you presuppose my response will be. Don't bother replying without answering this.

Ok, I'll play...The fact that you think Islamic fundamentalism has just risen as a result of the existence of Israel tells me you don't have a grasp on the historical context these organizations are coming from. Further, the fact that you think terrorism in the name of Jihad is a relatively new thing (this past century), tells me you are certainly not a history buff. Regardless, you questioned how thousands of people can go crazy in unison. This phenomenon has been seen throughout time, especially when the majority of those buying into the thought process are poor. For example, extremists want people focusing on Gaza and the "relief aid" they "need," diverting all attention from Darfur (guess who is comitting the genocide there), where actual aid is required and needed. Your moral relativism does nothing more then show how much you fully grasp concerning the history of the regions involved, the history of Islamic fundamentalism and the history of terrorism. This is not parallel to the founding fathers fighting the British. This is a band of highly organized and funded extremists who wish to impose their version of the law on the world and are willing to kill and be killed to do it.

As for your last paragraph. I am not a Christian. I dont hold religious values as I am not religious and am not an advocate of organized religion. I hold moral values, but they are not based on any organized religion per se. I believe that our relationship with Israel is a dicey one. The reason I say that is because I believe Israel is more right then wrong in comparison to the Palestinians, but our unwavering support puts our own safety in jeopardy. With that said, I think that we as a nation must support those who we believe are morally right in certain situations, which is why I was very disappointed when President Obama did not back the Green Revolution in Iran and chose to side with the theocracy over their recent elections. If we were to shy away from Israel and allow Israel to potentially be destroyed, we would only lose another footing in the ideological war that is going on right now.

Lastly, I will give you my opinions and will read and respect yours. But dont come on here trying to dictate who responds and what they have to respond to as you tried to do in the last paragraph of your latest post.

The only reason I had to take it there bud is because I had already asked that and you didn't answer, and that was the absolute next thing I needed to hear so I could process your statements, or even continue talking to you at all. Totally surprised at your response to that BTW. You in my experience with middle America, which is fairly significant, are the rarity. Most people with your overall perspective, here where I come from, are full on dispensationalist Christians. Though in fairness to you, I am not really sure what your perspective is. At first you seemed to be blindly throwing your lot behind mainstream rhetoric, but then you tell me you oppose the war in Iraq etc so I don't know what to make of you.

Sad that you resorted to stupid petty insults like "oh ur not a history buff you don't know anything" when that clearly cannot be gleaned from what I say and is inconsistent with what I've said. Extremism in any religion is hardly a new thing, but this conflict as it applies to us is 100% derived from our involvement in the middle east and with Israel. China doesn't support Israel. China doesn't dick with the middle east. China doesn't get planes smashing into their skyscrapers. The reason these extreme messages resonate with poor people in the middle east is because they're true. America is their enemy. America supports their enemy.

You've been firmly and deeply convinced that terrorism is caused by something beyond our control, and I disagree with that entirely. You'll never ever change my opinion from this. I do not have the ability to change yours. You, like everyone, will eventually come around though. Unfortunately it will be after the fact, once it is far too late.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

The only reason I had to take it there bud is because I had already asked that and you didn't answer, and that was the absolute next thing I needed to hear so I could process your statements, or even continue talking to you at all. Totally surprised at your response to that BTW. You in my experience with middle America, which is fairly significant, are the rarity. Most people with your overall perspective, here where I come from, are full on dispensationalist Christians. Though in fairness to you, I am not really sure what your perspective is. At first you seemed to be blindly throwing your lot behind mainstream rhetoric, but then you tell me you oppose the war in Iraq etc so I don't know what to make of you.

Sad that you resorted to stupid petty insults like "oh ur not a history buff you don't know anything" when that clearly cannot be gleaned from what I say and is inconsistent with what I've said. Extremism in any religion is hardly a new thing, but this conflict as it applies to us is 100% derived from our involvement in the middle east and with Israel. China doesn't support Israel. China doesn't dick with the middle east. China doesn't get planes smashing into their skyscrapers. The reason these extreme messages resonate with poor people in the middle east is because they're true. America is their enemy. America supports their enemy.

You've been firmly and deeply convinced that terrorism is caused by something beyond our control, and I disagree with that entirely. You'll never ever change my opinion from this. I do not have the ability to change yours. You, like everyone, will eventually come around though. Unfortunately it will be after the fact, once it is far too late.

The bolded makes you sound like a condescending Evangelical. The reality is, the only path that can lead us to waking up when its too late is the path you are advocating of burying our heads in the sand.

I don't want to bury my head in the sand. I'd like to dig up all our equipment out of the sand and fly it home in fact. And let Israel fend for themselves, or at least support the international community in persecuting them for their crimes. If we did one of either, a significant portion of terrorism would disappear(against us) and if we did both it all would, and these guys would look for the next infidel and Great Satan to slay.

Wolf, your argument with jimbo is very interesting. Please don't take offense (and I'm serious here) when I tell you that the picture you have of the muscle bounded guy looks gay and is very annoying. I don't think you're gay, Wolf and I'm not starting an argument. However, everytime I read one of your posts I have to look at that pic.

ahaha that is my number one most hated fighter and he is only there because I lost a sig bet!

I hate reading my own posts because of it!

Thanks otherwise frank

Lol. I love seeing it there because I know how much Wolf hates him. How long do you have to keep it up there when you lose a sig bet?

I week is the standard.