Anyone Read Mark Kramm's "Ghost of Manilla" ????

read it as a kid but didnt remember much so rereading it all i gotta say is wow

he paints Ali as a total puppet and uses Ray Robinson quotes stating Ali told Robinson while crying "Elijah Muhammad told me not to go to the war"

basically the point he was making was Ali was afraid the muslims would kill him if he didnt listen to them

he really tears away the image of Ali created by writers who werent even old enough to comprehend what was going o nat the time, as Kramm calls them "the romantic sports writers"

great moment in the book is apparently when Frazier and Gypsy Joe went to Alis place to confront him after Ali calling Frazier a tom in Philly.

Says Joe and gypsy were met by armed Fruit of Loon guards as Ali came to see them. Said Ali said "who's the shrimp" (looking at gypsy

Gyp said "give me 5 inches and i'll beat your faggot ass."

Joe told Ali the only perosn tomming was Ali for the muslims to which Ali said dont talk about my religion, to which Joe said "fuck your religion."

pretty powerful book i recommend it too all

I have to get that one. Anytime you'd like to talk more about it, feel free. lol

haha its a good book, its in 3 parts first part deals with ali and frazier reflecting on each other, 2ngets into their relationship and the 3rd part deals with the actual fight

great line when Herbert was assigned by Elijah to Muhammad to "protect Alis money" a reporter asked Dundee what does Herbert know about boxing?

Dundee: "he knows they use gloves"

Alis father chimed in "Elijah meant to say protect our money"

the book also paints Cossell in not too good of a shodaw noting that he chose his time wisely and didnt instantly throw himself in with Ali he waited till the right moment

I'm going to have to order it. I knew about it for ages but somehow never ordered it. I'd like to read that whole thing today.

its only 200 pages so you could definitely do it in a days sitting

Kram was a marvelous writer and an experienced boxing guy. An exceptional anti-dote the to blind idolatry of all things Muhammad Ali.

But also a bit of a bile filled hit piece. Worth the read.

Just started reading the Battling Siki book,so far a very good read.

you can definitely tell Kram thought Frazier > Ali

I also like the line where he said Robinson never liked Ali's "line of bullshit"

also thought it was interesting that all the old school boxing hustlers thought Ali was originally a homo

i liked that book winston

WinstonSmith wrote:

Just started reading the Battling Siki book,so far a very good read.

Let me know when you're done please? I haven't read that one.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

WinstonSmith wrote:

Just started reading the Battling Siki book,so far a very good read.

Let me know when you're done please? I haven't read that one.

Will do.Chapter one pretty much covers his fight with McTigue,and how he got screwed out of his paycheck against Carpentier.