Thriller in Manilla Documentary

My advice, my opinion, is that you guys watch this fight in it's entirety. Granted, Ali's behavior was horrible towards Frazier. However, we still want to get an honest and accurate approach to what happened. I've watched this fight more times than I can count and though the documentary was very accurate with the characters of the fighters, I don't know that they were too honest with the fight itself. My opinion. What I'm asking you to do is watch the fight and come up with your own conclusion, not that of the documentary. This type of approach isn't limited to this fight either. As time passes, people who were at an important fight where lots of the corner people and fighters have died, etc, make up their own analysis. Example. Roberto Duran W15 Ray Leonard. This fight took place in Montreal, Canada. Great fight and Duran deserved the decision, however Bert Sugar stated that, "Duran beat Leonard from pillar to pillar." Inaccurate. This was a very competitive fight. Some say it was the best they ever saw. Accounts of gym rats and press people, when compared to the actual fights, sometimes disagree with each other. Also, editing is a powerful weapon. For example, in the Manilla doc., they showed the same round 3 times and made it appear 3 different ways as though it was 3 different rounds. Look, it's arguably the greatest HW contest ever, so it's not hard to watch. So, check it out along with other great fights. Ya got nothing to lose but boredom

watch this fight so much i dont need to rewatch it

Ali controlled the first 4 or 5 rounds before Frazier started "Smokin" and kicking Ali's ass

that one sequence where Frazier tags Ali with a right hand and Ali goes "you aint got no right hand"

fuckin BOOM right on the money Frazier whacks his ass with another right hand

around 11 or 12 Ali started stealing all the momentum when Joes eye closed and when he sent Fraziers mouth piece flying i still have to do a double take

Fraziers mouth piece flew and I dont think Joe took his eyes of Ali for but a millisecond

i thought that ali was winning the first few rounds then frazier started coming back then ali started doing better again. ali should have been ahead on everybody's score card.

Exellent documentary, I wanted to slap the shit out of Ali's quack doctor, Ferdie Pacheco, for saying how "stupid" Frazier was, what a condescending asshole.

A GREAT documentary I thought. The eye-opening moment for me was Frazier watching the fight for the first time and after maybe 20 seconds saying "Too far away Smoke."

THAT is a man who knew what he was and what he was doing in the ring.

I too have watched that fight maybe a dozen times. Ali wins round one, almost finishes Frazier in the second, wins the third and I thought a close fourth. Then Frazier wins five of the next six and Ali looks finished. Ali's self-resurrection after the tenth round is one of the amazing things I have seen. But from 11-14 I thought Ali just kicked Joe's butt.

After 14 my scorecard would have been no closer than 135-131 Ali.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

A GREAT documentary I thought. The eye-opening moment for me was Frazier watching the fight for the first time and after maybe 20 seconds saying "Too far away Smoke."

THAT is a man who knew what he was and what he was doing in the ring.

I too have watched that fight maybe a dozen times. Ali wins round one, almost finishes Frazier in the second, wins the third and I thought a close fourth. Then Frazier wins five of the next six and Ali looks finished. Ali's self-resurrection after the tenth round is one of the amazing things I have seen. But from 11-14 I thought Ali just kicked Joe's butt.

After 14 my scorecard would have been no closer than 135-131 Ali.

I remember that too, Joe knew he had to get inside close and that was crazy he hadnt watched the fight in all those years, but honestly cant blame him

Great documentary.

Anyone see "One Nation Divisible"??? Was all about the leadup to the first fight between the two. It also solidified my opinion that Ali was a real cocksucker. The way he treated Joe was horrible. It went way beyond simply selling/hyping up a fight.

KrazyHorseBennett wrote:

Great documentary.

Anyone see "One Nation Divisible"??? Was all about the leadup to the first fight between the two. It also solidified my opinion that Ali was a real cocksucker. The way he treated Joe was horrible. It went way beyond simply selling/hyping up a fight.

yes I have it is great and I kind of concur, I still respect Muhammad as a boxer but it was messed up how he used race imo

somehow he talked himself into representing black america and making Joe Frazier (son of a Delta sharecropper) a white america uncle tom

?????? makes no sense

Ring wrote:

Exellent documentary, I wanted to slap the shit out of Ali's quack doctor, Ferdie Pacheco, for saying how "stupid" Frazier was, what a condescending asshole.

Ferdie always been a pain in the a..s but I've never seen him that rude. He's pretty frustrated about something.

Birdofthad wrote:

watch this fight so much i dont need to rewatch it

Ali controlled the first 4 or 5 rounds before Frazier started "Smokin" and kicking Ali's ass

that one sequence where Frazier tags Ali with a right hand and Ali goes "you aint got no right hand"

fuckin BOOM right on the money Frazier whacks his ass with another right hand

around 11 or 12 Ali started stealing all the momentum when Joes eye closed and when he sent Fraziers mouth piece flying i still have to do a double take

Fraziers mouth piece flew and I dont think Joe took his eyes of Ali for but a millisecond

That's what happened. The thing that shocked me about this fight was Joe's ability to counter off of punches hitting him square in the face. These guys must've dealed 14 rounds worth of knockouts on each other. I also wonder about the role the heat played in the outcome.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

A GREAT documentary I thought. The eye-opening moment for me was Frazier watching the fight for the first time and after maybe 20 seconds saying "Too far away Smoke."

THAT is a man who knew what he was and what he was doing in the ring.

I too have watched that fight maybe a dozen times. Ali wins round one, almost finishes Frazier in the second, wins the third and I thought a close fourth. Then Frazier wins five of the next six and Ali looks finished. Ali's self-resurrection after the tenth round is one of the amazing things I have seen. But from 11-14 I thought Ali just kicked Joe's butt.

After 14 my scorecard would have been no closer than 135-131 Ali.

Great documentary. I agree. We see the fight exactly the same way. Ali's comeback was amazing and he left it all in Manilla. He should've called it a career after that.

4445Frank wrote:

Ring wrote:

Exellent documentary, I wanted to slap the shit out of Ali's quack doctor, Ferdie Pacheco, for saying how "stupid" Frazier was, what a condescending asshole.

Ferdie always been a pain in the a..s but I've never seen him that rude. He's pretty frustrated about something.

I never could stand that blowhard quack Pacheco. He's a fraud and a liar, nuff said.


P.S. watching this documentary reminded me of why I could never understand how Ali could be thought of as a hero.

Ring wrote:

4445Frank wrote:

Ring wrote:

Exellent documentary, I wanted to slap the shit out of Ali's quack doctor, Ferdie Pacheco, for saying how "stupid" Frazier was, what a condescending asshole.

Ferdie always been a pain in the a..s but I've never seen him that rude. He's pretty frustrated about something.

I never could stand that blowhard quack Pacheco. He's a fraud and a liar, nuff said.


P.S. watching this documentary reminded me of why I could never understand how Ali could be thought of as a hero.

I don't think anyone would understand it watching that documentary. It was Ali at his absolute worst. As far as understanding why he is loved, I'll make a light hearted analogy. Ever see "Roger Rabbit?" There's a scene where someone is stalking him with hopes of killing him. Roger goes to a bar and makes everyone laugh. His nemesis shows up and Roger hides in the back. As Roger listens, it seems that someone is going to rat on him. He's confused as he says "Nobody squeels on a tune." And they didn't. They protected him because he made them laugh. Comedy is an extremely powerful tool to influence people with. People love to laugh. For that moment, all problems cease to exist. Ali could say the most offensive things in the world and a minute later, he could charm an enemy into a friend with his sense of humor. I watched it happen. Not saying that it's right. It's just reality as I know it. I had some experiences with Ali and saw him do some things that nobody else could've got away with. He was a colorful character and not always in a good way. But his gift of taking the mic and making people forget life for a second or two was what got him through.