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| MMA scoring changes recommended. | |
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+5Birdofthad Ludo bobbitt15 Wolfgangsta captain organic 9 posters | Author | Message |
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captain organic Bronze Belt
Posts : 7730 Join date : 2009-07-15 Location : NJ
| Subject: MMA scoring changes recommended. Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:08 pm | |
| CSAC recommended changes to MMA scoring system
Agenda Item 8 July 26, 2010 Presentation of Recommended Changes to MMA Scoring System
Nelson Hamilton, John McCarthy, Herb Dean -California State Athletic Commission Referees Summary: With the evaluation of Mixed Martial Arts, the scoring system needs to be evaluated to ensure that scoring criteria meets the needs of the sport. As pointed out in presentation when a fighter wins a round just by cage control the same score is given to the other individual who wins a round based on greater damage inflicted. This would allow someone more experience in grappling to takedown an opponent and just stay on top, not inflecting any damage to the other opponent. If this continues for two rounds, he would win two of the three rounds just by cage control. In the final rounds his opponent causes more damage to the fighter and could nearly end the fighter, is awarded the lose even though he inflected more damage through out the match.
Recommendation: This scoring system reflects the current evolution of mixed martial arts. The CAMO is in the process of evaluating the scoring system in the near future and using it at up and coming events. I recommend that the Commission evaluate the pro and a con after CAMO has established the scoring system within the amateur ranks in California. Some of the things that would need to be considered; 1) An extra cost established by the promoter for the extra official 2) ensure all judges are properly trained on the criteria for judging fights 3) referees are trained to understand near-submission 4) would required regulation change to reflect the new scoring system.
ADVANCING THE SPORT OF MMA THROUGH REFINING THE SCORING SYSTEM We'd like to express our whole-hearted support for the ABC's revisiting ofthe "Unified Rules." Clearly, through time and experience, America's commission officials have gained greater insight into the complexities of regulating Mixed Martial Arts. As the sport evolves, we as officials need to make every effort to match this evolutionary process by rethinking and refining our regulations and procedures. It is in this spirit that we offer recommendations for revising the current scoring system. It has become fairly obvious to those following the sport that there is growing discontent with the way many matches -particularly closely contested matches -are scored. In reality, this seed of discontent is rooted not in the lack ofexpertise or diligence ofour officials, but rather in the use ofa scoring system that does not provide them with the tools necessary to guarantee that their final scores accurately reflect the true nature ofthe bout that occurred.
A Brief History of MMA Scoring Prior to the implementation ofa scoring system, the outcome ofMMA competition could only be decided by knockout or submission. This was true when the predecessor ofMMA was an Olympic sport known as Pankration in 648 B.C. as well as when it transformed into Brazilian Jiu Jitsu competition and Vale Tudo (literally, "Anything Goes"). There were no judges. If an imposed time limit expired, the bout would be called a draw.
The Present Scoring System
The Ten-Point-Must System allows each judge to reward their selection ofthe more effective MMA fighter with a score of 10-9. In the rare instance when one fighter's relative effectiveness is considered "damaging and overwhelmingly dominant," judges may reward him with a score of 10-8. Conversely, when there is no way to even marginally distinguish between either fighter's effectiveness, the very rare "10-10" score may be used.
Our premise is that the Ten-Point-Must System, as used by the sport for which it was created, boxing, has proven inadequate for use in a multi-discipline sport like MMA, particularly when scoring very close rounds. The nature, variety and diversity of what regularly occur in most MMA rounds demands a scoring system with a finer gradient of options to ensure more fair and accurate scoring. The obvious failing ofthe current system is that it forces our judges to reward fighters equally for clearly unequal efforts, actions and results. Any round that falls between the vastly divergent circumstances of"marginal advantage in cage control" to anything short of "overwhelming dominance" is rewarded with the exact same score: 10-9. This results in a total-bout scoring that does not accurately reflect the action, leads to criticism of the officials, and even incurs accusations of corruption.
Ten-Point-Must System with the Use of Half-Points
Using half-points allows judges to score bouts in a way that accurately reflects the qualitative difference between the combatants. By using this finer gradient ofjudging, officials may take into consideration both the "scoring criteria" and the "margin by which" each round is won. For instance, a fighter who wins a round marginally based on "cage control" would not receive the same credit as a fighter who wins a round based on the "greater damage inflicted" on his opponent. The overall scoring ofa bout should not be just a reflection ofwho won the most rounds, but also a reflection ofthe "nature of how" and the "margin by which" each round was won. This is particularly true for MMA, considering that the majority ofbouts are scheduled for only three rounds.
What follows is an abbreviated description ofwhat justifies each score. This can easily be expanded and supported with video in order to help objectify and insure its' consistent application.
10-1O EVEN ROUND Although seldom warranted because very close rounds may be scored 10-9.5, it generally reflects one ofthree circumstances. • A round in which neither fighter distinguished himself via any ofthe established criteria.
•A round in which one fighter is more effective for half ofthe round and then his opponent comes back and exhibits equal effectiveness in the second half ofthe round.
•A round in which both fighters take turns equally inflicting damage on each other, scoring equally with clean strikes, effective grappling and or equal cage control.
10-9.5 MARGINAL ADVANTAGE This score reflects a round that is extremely close. Neither fighter inflicted greater damage on the other. One fighter may have marginally scored a greater number of strikes, or takedowns, marginally controlled the grappling, or demonstrated superior cage control.
10-9 CLEAR ADVANTAGE This score reflects a round in which it was fairly obvious who won, either through the comparative extent of damage inflicted, the number or quality of clean strikes, or the demonstration ofsuperior grappling. 10-9 is the most frequently used score.
10-8.5 DOMINANT ADVANTAGE This score reflects a round in which the winner is quite obvious, exhibiting dominance and clearly outclassing his opponent throughout the round, OR, inflicting significant damage.
10-8 OVERWHELMING ADVANTAGE This score reflects a round in which one fighter clearly wins the round through a combination of damage and domination throughout the entire round resulting from the obvious effects of superiority in striking and/or grappling.
Although scores of 10-7.5 and 10-7 are theoretically possible, they are improbable. A fight so one-sided would ordinarily dictate a referee's stoppage by TKO.
Half-point scoring is not a new concept. It has been used successfully around the world and is almost universally preferred by the professional officials who have had experience with it.
The Scoring Criteria Revisited
Having addressed the use ofa numerical system that will allow our judges to provide scores that better reflect the action, and more appropriately reward the fighters, it is time to reevaluate the nature ofthe prioritized criteria that we use as a context for our evaluation.
Although MMA competition is a sport, at its core it is also a fight. And, generally speaking, the most obvious and objective indication as to which fighter is winning is the extent of damage inflicted. Because the concept of"damage" as defined below is a "result" of effectiveness rather than an "action", it should be valued highest on the prioritized judge's scoring criteria.
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| | | Wolfgangsta Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Conor McGregor, Machida, Jon Jones, Ronda Rousey Posts : 18955 Join date : 2009-07-15 Location : USA
| Subject: Re: MMA scoring changes recommended. Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:30 pm | |
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| | | bobbitt15 Gold Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Chael Sonnen, Michael Chandler, Jorge Masvidal, Carlos Condit Posts : 14830 Join date : 2009-07-16 Age : 35 Location : Cincinnati
| Subject: Re: MMA scoring changes recommended. Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:36 pm | |
| Change is necessary. This half-point system actually sounds like a pretty good idea. | |
| | | Ludo Bronze Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : The Prodigy, The Great, Viking Dahmer, The Phenom Posts : 6474 Join date : 2009-09-12
| Subject: Re: MMA scoring changes recommended. Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:51 pm | |
| It sounds like they're trying to widen the spectrum with which judges can fuck up with. | |
| | | Wolfgangsta Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Conor McGregor, Machida, Jon Jones, Ronda Rousey Posts : 18955 Join date : 2009-07-15 Location : USA
| Subject: Re: MMA scoring changes recommended. Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:48 am | |
| That's my concern. This seems predicated at stopping wrestlers. This could potentially shift for instance the third round when Sonnen was rocked badly back into Anderson's favor even if he then spent the next 4:30 eating elbows and fists off his back.
Whatever they do, don't make the scoring discount grappling. | |
| | | Birdofthad Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Ken shamrock, Frank Shamrock, Guy Mezger, Pete Williams, you get it Lions Den Posts : 17542 Join date : 2009-07-19 Age : 37 Location : D Town
| Subject: Re: MMA scoring changes recommended. Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:53 am | |
| not a fan of a half point system at all | |
| | | bobbitt15 Gold Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Chael Sonnen, Michael Chandler, Jorge Masvidal, Carlos Condit Posts : 14830 Join date : 2009-07-16 Age : 35 Location : Cincinnati
| Subject: Re: MMA scoring changes recommended. Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:16 am | |
| This would help situations like the Lawlor-Simpson fight though | |
| | | Primetyme199 Brown Belt
Posts : 2916 Join date : 2009-07-30 Location : NJ
| Subject: Re: MMA scoring changes recommended. Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:02 am | |
| I don't like the half point system myself. | |
| | | Andrew the Raider King Red Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Chael, Sexyama, Condit, Hendricks, Cowboy, Struve Posts : 4356 Join date : 2009-07-17 Age : 54 Location : Montgomery, AL
| Subject: Re: MMA scoring changes recommended. Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:28 am | |
| I hate the 10 point system and I think they a tinkering with it which will not improve it, just muddy the waters more.
I prefer the system of a 5 points awarded per round, per judge. If the fight is even, you still have to pick the slightly more dominant guy so the score would be 3-2. However if there was clear dominance it is now 4-1 or if there is overwhelming dominance it is 5-0. For example; the Silva/Sonnen fight, for me would have been judged 5-0, 4-1, 5-0, 4-1 through the first 4 rounds, the judges score would be 19-2 for Sonnen. | |
| | | Ludo Bronze Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : The Prodigy, The Great, Viking Dahmer, The Phenom Posts : 6474 Join date : 2009-09-12
| Subject: Re: MMA scoring changes recommended. Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:19 pm | |
| - Andrew the Raider King wrote:
- I hate the 10 point system and I think they a tinkering with it which will not improve it, just muddy the waters more.
I prefer the system of a 5 points awarded per round, per judge. If the fight is even, you still have to pick the slightly more dominant guy so the score would be 3-2. However if there was clear dominance it is now 4-1 or if there is overwhelming dominance it is 5-0. For example; the Silva/Sonnen fight, for me would have been judged 5-0, 4-1, 5-0, 4-1 through the first 4 rounds, the judges score would be 19-2 for Sonnen. That... Just sounds retarded. | |
| | | Andrew the Raider King Red Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Chael, Sexyama, Condit, Hendricks, Cowboy, Struve Posts : 4356 Join date : 2009-07-17 Age : 54 Location : Montgomery, AL
| Subject: Re: MMA scoring changes recommended. Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:36 pm | |
| I always liked it, but if you can't grasp it... | |
| | | Ludo Bronze Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : The Prodigy, The Great, Viking Dahmer, The Phenom Posts : 6474 Join date : 2009-09-12
| Subject: Re: MMA scoring changes recommended. Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:39 pm | |
| It's not about grasping it. It's about that sounding absolutely ridiculous. "and with the judges scorecards reading 25-3, 25-3, and 25-4, your winner by unanimous decision" sounds asbsolutely absurd. This is professional competition, If the fight isn't being stopped it shouldn't be such a lopsided scoring affair. Thats like saying someone wasn't even present for the fight. | |
| | | chorky777 Purple Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Weidman, McGregor, Pettis, Cowboy Posts : 1222 Join date : 2009-07-15 Age : 37 Location : Dayton, OH
| Subject: Re: MMA scoring changes recommended. Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:04 pm | |
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| | | Andrew the Raider King Red Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Chael, Sexyama, Condit, Hendricks, Cowboy, Struve Posts : 4356 Join date : 2009-07-17 Age : 54 Location : Montgomery, AL
| Subject: Re: MMA scoring changes recommended. Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:34 pm | |
| LC, it does look lopsided, however, who won the fight? If we judged it fairly, there should have been not one 10-9 round. Making it appear closer than it really was. 50-45. At best if applied right it would have been 50-41 which shows dominance. But the problem I have is the 10 point must system. If there is one deduction against the dominant fighter, that means the asshole who lost the round, won the round. Does that make sense to you? | |
| | | Ludo Bronze Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : The Prodigy, The Great, Viking Dahmer, The Phenom Posts : 6474 Join date : 2009-09-12
| Subject: Re: MMA scoring changes recommended. Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:48 pm | |
| So we should make allotments so that a fighter who proves dominant yet breaks the rules enough to get a deduction should still win a round? Whats the point of having point deductions at all if they don't detrimentally effect a fighter's score in the event it goes to a decision?
I had the fight scored 50-42 if it had gone that far, with two 10-9 rounds when Silva was actually working submissions and strikes from the bottom, as well as got himself a takedown that may not have lasted very long.
Just like the article Chorky posted explains, why should we scrap a system that isn't even being used correctly for one with literally twice as many options? | |
| | | Birdofthad Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Ken shamrock, Frank Shamrock, Guy Mezger, Pete Williams, you get it Lions Den Posts : 17542 Join date : 2009-07-19 Age : 37 Location : D Town
| Subject: Re: MMA scoring changes recommended. Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:08 pm | |
| Im with Ludo on the 5 point thing haha | |
| | | Wolfgangsta Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Conor McGregor, Machida, Jon Jones, Ronda Rousey Posts : 18955 Join date : 2009-07-15 Location : USA
| Subject: Re: MMA scoring changes recommended. Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:32 pm | |
| The 5 point thing sounds good in theory but I can envision all the places it would go horribly wrong. | |
| | | GDPofDRC Administrator
Favorite Fighter(s) : Shogun, Fedor, Wand, Saku, Hendo, BJ, Bas, Cain, Mike Vallely Posts : 21274 Join date : 2009-08-04 Age : 104 Location : Fresyes, CA
| Subject: Re: MMA scoring changes recommended. Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:47 pm | |
| No judges. Fight must be finished or it is a draw. Fighters lose 50% of their purse to charity in the event of a draw.
MMA triumphs! | |
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