P4P-Bowles or Torres?

does a guy with a total of 8 wins jump over a guy who's 17 fight win streak just ended? Obviously it was head to head, but I just feel it ain't right for Bowles to jump about 100 spots on the p4p list because of one big win. Bowles earned the belt, but I still think Torres has the p4p credentials.

Drop Torres off the list, add Bowles at 10.

Torres wasn't as dominant in his recent wins and has fought a who's who of nobodies and midgets.

It happened when Brown beat Faber.

Shogun and Hendo exited the p4p lists along with Nog and Couture when they all lost.

Torres was in the Spider/GSP/Fedor/BJ Penn class based on his record, but not so much his ability. He was in serious wars where as the above mentioned in their native weight classes walk through significantly tougher fighters than Torres fought.

Todays greats have one thing in common - they don't really get hit too much.

Shrink down Thiago Alves, BJ Penn, Kenny Florian, Sean Sherk, Rashad Evans, Dan Henderson, Forrest Griffin, Andrei Arlovski or Tim Sylvia to sizes relative to where they were when GSP, BJ, Machida, Silva and Fedor destroyed them and it's doubtful Torres walks through any of them, even poopy. Maybe poopy.

Torres needs to make some adjustments and he can come back.

[quote="Ninja\Rua/Fan"]It happened when Brown beat Faber.[/quote

But Brown was going for win #20, and had already proven himself capable at a higher weight. And Faber was not riding a 17 fight win streak/ But I think the argument could have been made there as well(Im actually still tempted to put Faber ahead of Brown). The conventional wisdom throws these guys, ala Forrest, on the list based pretty much off of one win. These guys are jumping 100 spots. Now Brown has earned his spot, but Forrest proved his ranking was comical. Bowles? time will tell but I don't think he's earned his spot yet.

Forrest earned his spot with two wins over top three pound for pounders in a row.

But frankly, Forrest was never as dominant as his tiny Georgian clone.

I know torres was in a couple brawls vs the japanese guys, but he also ruined Tapia, and choked out both Beebe and bedard in no time, and let's not be too negative about the brawls, cause they were excellent fights in which torres was tested, and then responded. Heck one of those fights was a 3rd round KO.

[quote="captain organic"]

Ninja\Rua/Fan wrote:

It happened when Brown beat Faber.[/quote

But Brown was going for win #20, and had already proven himself capable at a higher weight. And Faber was not riding a 17 fight win streak/ But I think the argument could have been made there as well(Im actually still tempted to put Faber ahead of Brown). The conventional wisdom throws these guys, ala Forrest, on the list based pretty much off of one win. These guys are jumping 100 spots. Now Brown has earned his spot, but Forrest proved his ranking was comical. Bowles? time will tell but I don't think he's earned his spot yet.

Forrest was put in the top 10 P4P because he beat two fighters who were at the time both ranked #1.

Faber was on a 12 fight win streak when he lost to Brown.

Bowles so far at 135 looked unstoppable and is undefeated. He beat a man who almost everyone considered top 5 p4p in the world in devastating fashion. I think he deserves to be in the top 10.

[quote="Wolfgangsta"]Forrest earned his spot with two wins over top three pound for pounders in a row.

But frankly, Forrest was never as dominant as his tiny Georgian clone.[/quote

come on, Forrest was never a legit p4p guy. He's lost to Jardine, had an epic war with Bonnar, and just got totally embarrassed by a 185er. I think you can earn belts by realing off a couple wins, but the p4p list should hold to a higher standard. It's mythical nature should allow us to be more rigourous in our selection process.

Before he beat Chase Bebe he fought absolutely no one of note at all. And fought almost everyone at local shows.

This weight class is super thin. The fighters around in the next 5 years at both BW and FW would trash the divisional rulers from yesteryear.

Yes Forrest was a legit p4p guy. Beat the number one ranked fighter in MMA's best weight class consecutively. Pound for pound material entirely.

1. Fedor
2. GSP
3. Anderson
4. Machida
5. Penn
6. MTB
7. Rampage
8. Sheilds
9. Faber
10. Bowles

HM: Fitch, Gegard, Torres, Rashad


What is your list?

[quote="Ninja\Rua/Fan"]

captain organic wrote:

Ninja\Rua/Fan wrote:

It happened when Brown beat Faber.[/quote

But Brown was going for win #20, and had already proven himself capable at a higher weight. And Faber was not riding a 17 fight win streak/ But I think the argument could have been made there as well(Im actually still tempted to put Faber ahead of Brown). The conventional wisdom throws these guys, ala Forrest, on the list based pretty much off of one win. These guys are jumping 100 spots. Now Brown has earned his spot, but Forrest proved his ranking was comical. Bowles? time will tell but I don't think he's earned his spot yet.

Forrest was put in the top 10 P4P because he beat two fighters who were at the time both ranked #1.

Faber was on a 12 fight win streak when he lost to Brown.

Bowles so far at 135 looked unstoppable and is undefeated. He beat a man who almost everyone considered top 5 p4p in the world in devastating fashion. I think he deserves to be in the top 10.

I wouldn't call Bowles win devastating, he was in pretty big trouble just prior to landing a big time shot. A very good win, the belt is well earned, but an 8-0 p4p guy? seems a bit premature.

IMO Forrest's ranking has been proven as very much undeserved.

1 a Fedor
1 b Spider
1 c Dragon
1 d Rush
5. Penn
6. Mike Thomas Brown
7. Dan Henderson
8. Faber
9. Bowles
10. Sanchez

And when Lesnar goes .500 in the next two years against similar guys so will his current ranking, doesn't mean he doesn't deserve it now.

I think Bowles clearly shows that he's a p4p guy when he outskills Miguel Torres, and is undefeated with all of his victories being finishes. I actually already thought of Bowles as a top 20 p4p guy anyways, and even thought about putting him at top 10, but I wanted to see him fight Torres before deciding on that.

1)Fedor
2)Anderson(here lies another argument, no way is Spider less then #2)
3)Machida
4)GSP
5)Penn
6)Page
7)MTB
8)Faber
9)Hendo
10)Diego

HM) Shields, Torres, Evans, Franklin, Alves, Fitch, Bowles

Wolfgangsta wrote:

And when Lesnar goes .500 in the next two years against similar guys so will his current ranking, doesn't mean he doesn't deserve it now.

do you have Lesnar ranked somewhere?

#2 at HW

I have him at four but ya.