BOXING MYTHS

dmar5143 wrote:

yes something got in clays eyes off listons glove..both fighters used a little vaseline on there faces to slip punches etc etc and it got there by accident.

That's possible. However it got in Clay's eyes, Liston wanted to make the most of it and went on the attack. If the fight was fixed, why do that?

the first fight wasnt fixed..its the second liston took a dive..why is the mystery.

dmar5143 wrote:

the first fight wasnt fixed..its the second liston took a dive..why is the mystery.

Gotcha

[quote="4445Frank"]Sex before fights weakens the legs. No surprise that some of the greatest fighters that ever did it, Louis, Ali and Robinson, were some of the biggest skirt chasers in history. [/quote]

They had this on sports science and said it is false and isnt true at all.

Mayweather Jr. has a china chin that will be shattered as soon as somebody connects.

Roy Jones Jr. was extremely over-rated because he finally got KO'd after 10 years of dominance.

Mike Tyson is one of the greatest heavyweights of all-time.

Power and KO Rate are the major determining factor in who wins a fight. If you don't have power, you obviously suck.

Styles mean nothing... it is all about who is stronger and faster.

I think that is a good starting list.

timthebim wrote:

[quote="4445Frank"]Sex before fights weakens the legs. No surprise that some of the greatest fighters that ever did it, Louis, Ali and Robinson, were some of the biggest skirt chasers in history.

They had this on sports science and said it is false and isnt true at all.[/quote]

I would say you're probably not as mean/nasty as you would be though. Nothing like cutting a man off from sex to piss him off before a fight... LOL

dmar5143 wrote:

i dont understand boxing lawyer..the plane crash rocky was in came some 13 years after he retired.there was no way that he was interested in fighting again after 13 years of enjoying retirement let alone a patterson match..

Im old and the memory is gone.........LOL! Marciano had an offer to fight Patterson 6 years or so after he retired. (Marciano called in quits in 55-56 I think) and Patterson didnt fight Liston until 62ish. I remember buzz about the Rock coming back to fight Patterson, but it never happened. I filled in the blank with his death, but you are correct. Marciano in his 40s wasnt coming back.

Here is a question. What if Marciano had fought Liston?

Marciano dies a couple years earlier

Things that aren't true, but are widely believed to be so.

Cus Damato's death led to Mike Tyson's downfall-As Jose Torres discloses in his book Fire and Fear, Tyson was NEVER under control or stable even while Cus was alive.

Willie Pep was feather fisted-Yes Pep only had a KO percentage of 25% or so. But he still knocked out 65 men which is likely one of the top 100 numbers in history. More compellingly, in title fights his KO percentage ROSE to almost 50%. What does that show? That Pep chose to save his hands for big fights and then he'd go full out. The man could punch.

Jack Dempsey was a racist unusual for his time-No he didn't face any black fighters with the title on the line. But neither did Jack Johnson or Gene Tunney or Max Baer or Max Schmeling when they were champs. Dempsey fought several black fighters before he became champion and his traveling sparring partner was Big Bill Tate. The fact of the matter is promoters were scared to death of two things, not making money and a repeat of the race riots that followed Johnson's win over Jim Jeffries. Now was all this extremely unfortunate and unfair? Yup. But blaming Dempsey is too easy.

Tommy Hearns had a weak chin-Hearns was KO'd four times. Once by a cruiser when he was 42, once by the greatest KO middleweight champ of all time, once by one of the 20 greatest fighters in history and once by Iran Barkley. The Leonard KO was from exhaustion more than anything else. Heanrs in his career stood up to such famous punchers as Pipino Cuevas and Roberto Duran as well as very good punchers like James Shuler, Dennis Andries and Juan Roldan. It wasn't that Hearns chin was weak, it just wasn't as impressive as his other gifts. Look what it took to get him out of there.

That being an "all-around" fighter is important-One can count the number of fighters who did almost everything at a very high level in boxing history on both hands and maybe one foot. Most even ATG boxers have one consistent way to win, one approach that they have so perfected and that fit their talents so well that few could force them into a plan B. For every Ray Robinson or Ray Leonard or Eder Jofre there are a dozen Henry Armstrong's, Rocky Marciano's, Alexis Arguello's, Julio Cesar Chavez's, Willie Pep's, Harry Greb's, Ruben Olivares' or Michael Spinks'.

That it takes a particular mental makeup to be an exceptional fighter-Now I'd argue it is true one must be mentally resilient, but there are as many distinct personalities among the greats as there are personality types. The gentleman like Dick Tiger or Alexis Arguello. The pompous prince like Ray Robinson or Floyd Mayweather. The cocky wise-ass like Willie Pep or Benny Leonard. The monster just beneath the surface like Carlos Monzon or Sonny Liston. The truly mild man like Emile Griffith, Floyd Patterson or Fidel LaBarba. The true street tough like Rocky Graziano or Bernard Hopkins. The man convinced he was born to greatness, like Muhammad Ali or Gene Tunney.

That the heavies of yesteryear were too small to compete today-If you hold age constant, Joe Louis was as big or bigger than Evander Holyfield. Max Baer was 6'3, 210 with an 81 inch reach. His brother Buddy was a massive 6'6 and 240 with an 84 inch reach. Jim Jeffries was 6'2, around 230 on the day of the fight with a 77 inch reach. Sonny Liston was 6'1 maybe 220 with an freaky 84 inch reach and a 15 inch fist. Now outside of the Ukranians, how many top heavies today are really bigger than say 6'3, 220-225 if they were in top shape?

That cuts from punches or clashes of heads are just bad luck-Nope. Very often they are the product of very poor technique. Guys fighting with their heads straight up and down and squared up to the other guy. Guys who have no idea how to turn their head when closing distance or when receiving a blow. Guys who don't understand that a cauliflower ear can be a sign of a well schooled fighter. The LAST place one wants to collide with another's head or to take a blow is on the face. Turning one's head just enough to take a blow or a collission on the side of the head will prevent many cuts. Another lost boxing art.

What other myths do you have?

Boxing Lawyer made a similar thread like this, I'll search for it and merge these two together if that's no problem.

There done

I love the HW blip. I've been screaming to the top of my lungs for the last couple years that alot of the HWs aren't big, they're just fat and out of shape.

Arreola loves to say he is a big guy. Big George Foreman didn't weigh that much in his prime and he was a big man. Alot of the larger fighters are just 20-25 pounds of extra fat these days.

If you are 6 ft 2 or 6 ft 3 (alot of today's heavyweights), you have to be a large, muscular guy to be bigger than 225 lbs and be in shape.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Things that aren't true, but are widely believed to be so.

Cus Damato's death led to Mike Tyson's downfall-As Jose Torres discloses in his book Fire and Fear, Tyson was NEVER under control or stable even while Cus was alive.

Willie Pep was feather fisted-Yes Pep only had a KO percentage of 25% or so. But he still knocked out 65 men which is likely one of the top 100 numbers in history. More compellingly, in title fights his KO percentage ROSE to almost 50%. What does that show? That Pep chose to save his hands for big fights and then he'd go full out. The man could punch.

Jack Dempsey was a racist unusual for his time-No he didn't face any black fighters with the title on the line. But neither did Jack Johnson or Gene Tunney or Max Baer or Max Schmeling when they were champs. Dempsey fought several black fighters before he became champion and his traveling sparring partner was Big Bill Tate. The fact of the matter is promoters were scared to death of two things, not making money and a repeat of the race riots that followed Johnson's win over Jim Jeffries. Now was all this extremely unfortunate and unfair? Yup. But blaming Dempsey is too easy.

Tommy Hearns had a weak chin-Hearns was KO'd four times. Once by a cruiser when he was 42, once by the greatest KO middleweight champ of all time, once by one of the 20 greatest fighters in history and once by Iran Barkley. The Leonard KO was from exhaustion more than anything else. Heanrs in his career stood up to such famous punchers as Pipino Cuevas and Roberto Duran as well as very good punchers like James Shuler, Dennis Andries and Juan Roldan. It wasn't that Hearns chin was weak, it just wasn't as impressive as his other gifts. Look what it took to get him out of there.

That being an "all-around" fighter is important-One can count the number of fighters who did almost everything at a very high level in boxing history on both hands and maybe one foot. Most even ATG boxers have one consistent way to win, one approach that they have so perfected and that fit their talents so well that few could force them into a plan B. For every Ray Robinson or Ray Leonard or Eder Jofre there are a dozen Henry Armstrong's, Rocky Marciano's, Alexis Arguello's, Julio Cesar Chavez's, Willie Pep's, Harry Greb's, Ruben Olivares' or Michael Spinks'.

That it takes a particular mental makeup to be an exceptional fighter-Now I'd argue it is true one must be mentally resilient, but there are as many distinct personalities among the greats as there are personality types. The gentleman like Dick Tiger or Alexis Arguello. The pompous prince like Ray Robinson or Floyd Mayweather. The cocky wise-ass like Willie Pep or Benny Leonard. The monster just beneath the surface like Carlos Monzon or Sonny Liston. The truly mild man like Emile Griffith, Floyd Patterson or Fidel LaBarba. The true street tough like Rocky Graziano or Bernard Hopkins. The man convinced he was born to greatness, like Muhammad Ali or Gene Tunney.

That the heavies of yesteryear were too small to compete today-If you hold age constant, Joe Louis was as big or bigger than Evander Holyfield. Max Baer was 6'3, 210 with an 81 inch reach. His brother Buddy was a massive 6'6 and 240 with an 84 inch reach. Jim Jeffries was 6'2, around 230 on the day of the fight with a 77 inch reach. Sonny Liston was 6'1 maybe 220 with an freaky 84 inch reach and a 15 inch fist. Now outside of the Ukranians, how many top heavies today are really bigger than say 6'3, 220-225 if they were in top shape?

That cuts from punches or clashes of heads are just bad luck-Nope. Very often they are the product of very poor technique. Guys fighting with their heads straight up and down and squared up to the other guy. Guys who have no idea how to turn their head when closing distance or when receiving a blow. Guys who don't understand that a cauliflower ear can be a sign of a well schooled fighter. The LAST place one wants to collide with another's head or to take a blow is on the face. Turning one's head just enough to take a blow or a collission on the side of the head will prevent many cuts. Another lost boxing art.

What other myths do you have?

This is an excellent article, Marble. Better than most boxing mags out there. Maybe you should start your own publication. If you do, I'd like to write a few articles in it. That said, Tommy Hearns couldn't take a punch.

Boxing Myths.

1. Ali was going to quit against Joe Frazier in their 3rd fight. Frazier fought the most courageous fight I ever saw, however do you think Ali would quit against Joe after having his best round ever against him? I'm convinced the falling out at the end of the fight was relief. He would've had the same reaction had Joe quit after the 13th round.

2. Ray Leonard stole a decision against Marvin Hagler. Ray was always stronger than anyone gave him credit for. Hagler wasn't coming in with abandon because he knew this. The punches Ray was hitting Hagler with in the first 4 rounds sounded off throughout the whole arena. During this action, Larry Merchant states "Just because Ray's punches sound off better doesn't mean their harder than Haglers." Do I have an experiment for this genius. Hit the table in front of you with a closed fist. Now hit it harder. Notice the 2nd blow sounds louder than the first? If you do, give yourself 2 points on the IQ test. Leonard was punching Hagler with a closed glove, not slapping him. The punches sounded off because they were hard. Hagler has the greatest pain threshold of any fighter I've ever seen. That's why he reacted well. Also, for you gym rats who know Hagler won the fight, listen to the commentary by Gil Clancy, one of the most knowledgeable trainers in the history of our sport. Don't take my word for it, check out the action on You Tube.

3. Billy Conn was responsible for his own demise against Joe Louis: Conn was winning his fight against Joe Louis decisively for 11 rounds. Nevertheless, I've never seen a fighter with the capacity to concentrate like Joe Louis. In 25 title defenses, I never saw him express any type of emotion. Joe goaded Conn in. This started in the 12th round with Joe giving Conn the illusion he was on his way out. In the 13th, Conn took the bait and was knocked out. It's called playing Possum. Men who are power savants can do this type of thing. (See Foreman vs. Moore.)

4. Julio Chavez was the greatest Mexican boxer ever. The greatest Mexican fighter ever is able to fight all styles. Salvador Sanchez showed this ability. Chavez was lost when fighting slick boxers.

5. Evander Holyfield was a clean fighter. Gentleman? Of course. All time Great? Sure. Class act? Definitely.... and one of the dirtiest fighters in history. Evander had the most powerful one two punch this writer has ever seen. It started with a left hook, however that was just a fake for the giant, rock, diamond head that was about to crash in the corner of your eye with all Evander's weight behind it. Following through a left hook fake with the best head butt I've ever seen is a work of evil genius. Couldn't do it against taller men but it worked like a charm against men his height or shorter.

6. Lennox Lewis won the 2nd Holyfield fight. Sorry guys, the announcers at HBO had too much influence over the judges. They scored the 2nd fight the way they thought the first fight should've been scored. By the way, I had the 1st fight a draw. Lewis stopped fighting after round 8 and though he was ahead 4 points on my card, gave them all up.

[quote="marbleheadmaui"]Things that aren't true, but are widely believed to be so.

Cus Damato's death led to Mike Tyson's downfall-As Jose Torres discloses in his book Fire and Fear, Tyson was NEVER under control or stable even while Cus was alive. No shit. Tyson was arrested 48 times before he was 13 years old.

frank ali himself said many times he thought about quiting and the end of round 13..it wasnt relief we saw it was exhaustion and it showed before they waved the fight off.then there was relief...louis didnt conn billy conn..he genualy hurt louis and yes made a mistake.louis did not play possuim or joe would of stated that tons of times after the fight..billy shook joe but joe was hurt briefly..the round or so before conn buckled joes knees bad and missed the oportunity to go for either the finish or the knockdown..

dmar5143 wrote:

frank ali himself said many times he thought about quiting and the end of round 13..it wasnt relief we saw it was exhaustion and it showed before they waved the fight off.then there was relief...louis didnt conn billy conn..he genualy hurt louis and yes made a mistake.louis did not play possuim or joe would of stated that tons of times after the fight..billy shook joe but joe was hurt briefly..the round or so before conn buckled joes knees bad and missed the oportunity to go for either the finish or the knockdown..

dmar, can you at least admit that these fights are open to different intepretations? I know I'm going against the majority opinion here, but to tell you the truth, I'm all written out. I think I've discussed every boxer I know from the year 1910 to the present. How many other myth breakers could I come up with? Jack Dempsey and plaster of Paris. We discussed that. Women weaken legs before fights? We went over that. Phantom punch is open for debate. Boxing is not turning around enough stars so I find myself having to go over the same fights and use my imagination on some of these posts. If there's even a chance I'm right on some of these fights, I'll print it because it makes them more interesting. That said, you're probably right, but if I keep writing the same thing over and over again, it's boring. Help me out here. Give me some myths I don't know about.

I put down that one of boxing's greatest myths was that Evander was clean fighter. Everyone and their grandmother knows Evander is a dirty fighter. As I said, when the same fights appear along with the same fighters, I start running out of material. It's rare I see a thread that either, you, Marble or me didn't go over already. I have to start getting creative. I'll start a dream fight thread when I have time and write the fight out, round for round. Not that's an idea. LOL

4445Frank wrote:

Boxing Myths.

1. Ali was going to quit against Joe Frazier in their 3rd fight. Frazier fought the most courageous fight I ever saw, however do you think Ali would quit against Joe after having his best round ever against him? I'm convinced the falling out at the end of the fight was relief. He would've had the same reaction had Joe quit after the 13th round.

2. Ray Leonard stole a decision against Marvin Hagler. Ray was always stronger than anyone gave him credit for. Hagler wasn't coming in with abandon because he knew this. The punches Ray was hitting Hagler with in the first 4 rounds sounded off throughout the whole arena. During this action, Larry Merchant states "Just because Ray's punches sound off better doesn't mean their harder than Haglers." Do I have an experiment for this genius. Hit the table in front of you with a closed fist. Now hit it harder. Notice the 2nd blow sounds louder than the first? If you do, give yourself 2 points on the IQ test. Leonard was punching Hagler with a closed glove, not slapping him. The punches sounded off because they were hard. Hagler has the greatest pain threshold of any fighter I've ever seen. That's why he reacted well. Also, for you gym rats who know Hagler won the fight, listen to the commentary by Gil Clancy, one of the most knowledgeable trainers in the history of our sport. Don't take my word for it, check out the action on You Tube.

3. Billy Conn was responsible for his own demise against Joe Louis: Conn was winning his fight against Joe Louis decisively for 11 rounds. Nevertheless, I've never seen a fighter with the capacity to concentrate like Joe Louis. In 25 title defenses, I never saw him express any type of emotion. Joe goaded Conn in. This started in the 12th round with Joe giving Conn the illusion he was on his way out. In the 13th, Conn took the bait and was knocked out. It's called playing Possum. Men who are power savants can do this type of thing. (See Foreman vs. Moore.)

4. Julio Chavez was the greatest Mexican boxer ever. The greatest Mexican fighter ever is able to fight all styles. Salvador Sanchez showed this ability. Chavez was lost when fighting slick boxers.

5. Evander Holyfield was a clean fighter. Gentleman? Of course. All time Great? Sure. Class act? Definitely.... and one of the dirtiest fighters in history. Evander had the most powerful one two punch this writer has ever seen. It started with a left hook, however that was just a fake for the giant, rock, diamond head that was about to crash in the corner of your eye with all Evander's weight behind it. Following through a left hook fake with the best head butt I've ever seen is a work of evil genius. Couldn't do it against taller men but it worked like a charm against men his height or shorter.

6. Lennox Lewis won the 2nd Holyfield fight. Sorry guys, the announcers at HBO had too much influence over the judges. They scored the 2nd fight the way they thought the first fight should've been scored. By the way, I had the 1st fight a draw. Lewis stopped fighting after round 8 and though he was ahead 4 points on my card, gave them all up.

Chavez was lost when fighting slick boxers? He damn near killed Meldrick, hammered the hell out of Hector Camacho and destroyed Roger Mayweather.

Thanks Ali for the combination. I had missed BL's article.

captainanddew wrote:

This isn't a myth, but I hate the fact that people give so much creedence to power punchers. How many guys really are power punchers? There is a littany of guys who knocked out bums, journeyman, other prospects, and other contenders on their way to the top.


It is rare to find a guy that can continue to knock out guys when they get to the top of a division. When it comes down to top 5 guys in most divisions, the better technical boxer will normally win.

I wish I'd written that.

frank ok ill give you 2 myths.1.cleveland williams was a destructive exposive big puncher..BS ..he was one of the biggest underachievening overated contender in many a years..forget the ko record please..after all lamar clark koed lol his first 43 fighters..williams claim to fame and his rise in the ranking was based on one thing..he slugged it out with sonny liston twice and got koed twice in 2 and 3 rounds..every contender he fought that were in the top ten even fringe i need to fill in the blank top ten contenders he stoped one.earnie terrell in the first fight.i saw williams fight a good 15 times and said this guy is a joke.good build and a newspaper buildup..against 13 contenders he stoped one and was koed several times without hurting the other guy..mac foster who could punch blew him out trwice..foster by the way i got this from a great informed sourse koed liston not once but twice in sparing..and on his way down light heavy bob satterfield even koed williams..big puncher.nonsence..like george chuvalo he was excellent at koing what we use to call ham and egger fighters..he was BS.

second myth..gene tunney could not punch..nonsence.gene indeed could hit and had the abilty to take guys out with one shot or a good combo..gene hurt his hands a few times so a lot of times used caution in the big punches but hit you very hard to keep you honest..if it wasnt for the hands well..

dmar5143 wrote:

frank ok ill give you 2 myths.1.cleveland williams was a destructive exposive big puncher..BS ..he was one of the biggest underachievening overated contender in many a years..forget the ko record please..after all lamar clark koed lol his first 43 fighters..williams claim to fame and his rise in the ranking was based on one thing..he slugged it out with sonny liston twice and got koed twice in 2 and 3 rounds..every contender he fought that were in the top ten even fringe i need to fill in the blank top ten contenders he stoped one.earnie terrell in the first fight.i saw williams fight a good 15 times and said this guy is a joke.good build and a newspaper buildup..against 13 contenders he stoped one and was koed several times without hurting the other guy..mac foster who could punch blew him out trwice..foster by the way i got this from a great informed sourse koed liston not once but twice in sparing..and on his way down light heavy bob satterfield even koed williams..big puncher.nonsence..like george chuvalo he was excellent at koing what we use to call ham and egger fighters..he was BS.

second myth..gene tunney could not punch..nonsence.gene indeed could hit and had the abilty to take guys out with one shot or a good combo..gene hurt his hands a few times so a lot of times used caution in the big punches but hit you very hard to keep you honest..if it wasnt for the hands well..

Just a little fun trivia here. A young Cassius Clay ko,d Lamar Clark in two rounds. Lamar had one of the highest KO percentages in the 60,s.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

4445Frank wrote:

Boxing Myths.

1. Ali was going to quit against Joe Frazier in their 3rd fight. Frazier fought the most courageous fight I ever saw, however do you think Ali would quit against Joe after having his best round ever against him? I'm convinced the falling out at the end of the fight was relief. He would've had the same reaction had Joe quit after the 13th round.

2. Ray Leonard stole a decision against Marvin Hagler. Ray was always stronger than anyone gave him credit for. Hagler wasn't coming in with abandon because he knew this. The punches Ray was hitting Hagler with in the first 4 rounds sounded off throughout the whole arena. During this action, Larry Merchant states "Just because Ray's punches sound off better doesn't mean their harder than Haglers." Do I have an experiment for this genius. Hit the table in front of you with a closed fist. Now hit it harder. Notice the 2nd blow sounds louder than the first? If you do, give yourself 2 points on the IQ test. Leonard was punching Hagler with a closed glove, not slapping him. The punches sounded off because they were hard. Hagler has the greatest pain threshold of any fighter I've ever seen. That's why he reacted well. Also, for you gym rats who know Hagler won the fight, listen to the commentary by Gil Clancy, one of the most knowledgeable trainers in the history of our sport. Don't take my word for it, check out the action on You Tube.

3. Billy Conn was responsible for his own demise against Joe Louis: Conn was winning his fight against Joe Louis decisively for 11 rounds. Nevertheless, I've never seen a fighter with the capacity to concentrate like Joe Louis. In 25 title defenses, I never saw him express any type of emotion. Joe goaded Conn in. This started in the 12th round with Joe giving Conn the illusion he was on his way out. In the 13th, Conn took the bait and was knocked out. It's called playing Possum. Men who are power savants can do this type of thing. (See Foreman vs. Moore.)

4. Julio Chavez was the greatest Mexican boxer ever. The greatest Mexican fighter ever is able to fight all styles. Salvador Sanchez showed this ability. Chavez was lost when fighting slick boxers.

5. Evander Holyfield was a clean fighter. Gentleman? Of course. All time Great? Sure. Class act? Definitely.... and one of the dirtiest fighters in history. Evander had the most powerful one two punch this writer has ever seen. It started with a left hook, however that was just a fake for the giant, rock, diamond head that was about to crash in the corner of your eye with all Evander's weight behind it. Following through a left hook fake with the best head butt I've ever seen is a work of evil genius. Couldn't do it against taller men but it worked like a charm against men his height or shorter.

6. Lennox Lewis won the 2nd Holyfield fight. Sorry guys, the announcers at HBO had too much influence over the judges. They scored the 2nd fight the way they thought the first fight should've been scored. By the way, I had the 1st fight a draw. Lewis stopped fighting after round 8 and though he was ahead 4 points on my card, gave them all up.

Chavez was lost when fighting slick boxers? He damn near killed Meldrick, hammered the hell out of Hector Camacho and destroyed Roger Mayweather.

Ha, ha, finally I can defend my little boxing myth list. Camacho was finished. If he took on a pre Rosario, Camacho I'd agree with you. Meldrick was not a standard, stiff European type fighter but he was not what I'd call a mover. Movers hit without getting hit. Meldrick wanted to be Joe Frazier. I don't consider Roger M. in the same class as Julio. Julio was a great fighter, but his inability to fight slick fighters was exposed by Pernell Whitiker.

4445Frank wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

4445Frank wrote:

Boxing Myths.

1. Ali was going to quit against Joe Frazier in their 3rd fight. Frazier fought the most courageous fight I ever saw, however do you think Ali would quit against Joe after having his best round ever against him? I'm convinced the falling out at the end of the fight was relief. He would've had the same reaction had Joe quit after the 13th round.

2. Ray Leonard stole a decision against Marvin Hagler. Ray was always stronger than anyone gave him credit for. Hagler wasn't coming in with abandon because he knew this. The punches Ray was hitting Hagler with in the first 4 rounds sounded off throughout the whole arena. During this action, Larry Merchant states "Just because Ray's punches sound off better doesn't mean their harder than Haglers." Do I have an experiment for this genius. Hit the table in front of you with a closed fist. Now hit it harder. Notice the 2nd blow sounds louder than the first? If you do, give yourself 2 points on the IQ test. Leonard was punching Hagler with a closed glove, not slapping him. The punches sounded off because they were hard. Hagler has the greatest pain threshold of any fighter I've ever seen. That's why he reacted well. Also, for you gym rats who know Hagler won the fight, listen to the commentary by Gil Clancy, one of the most knowledgeable trainers in the history of our sport. Don't take my word for it, check out the action on You Tube.

3. Billy Conn was responsible for his own demise against Joe Louis: Conn was winning his fight against Joe Louis decisively for 11 rounds. Nevertheless, I've never seen a fighter with the capacity to concentrate like Joe Louis. In 25 title defenses, I never saw him express any type of emotion. Joe goaded Conn in. This started in the 12th round with Joe giving Conn the illusion he was on his way out. In the 13th, Conn took the bait and was knocked out. It's called playing Possum. Men who are power savants can do this type of thing. (See Foreman vs. Moore.)

4. Julio Chavez was the greatest Mexican boxer ever. The greatest Mexican fighter ever is able to fight all styles. Salvador Sanchez showed this ability. Chavez was lost when fighting slick boxers.

5. Evander Holyfield was a clean fighter. Gentleman? Of course. All time Great? Sure. Class act? Definitely.... and one of the dirtiest fighters in history. Evander had the most powerful one two punch this writer has ever seen. It started with a left hook, however that was just a fake for the giant, rock, diamond head that was about to crash in the corner of your eye with all Evander's weight behind it. Following through a left hook fake with the best head butt I've ever seen is a work of evil genius. Couldn't do it against taller men but it worked like a charm against men his height or shorter.

6. Lennox Lewis won the 2nd Holyfield fight. Sorry guys, the announcers at HBO had too much influence over the judges. They scored the 2nd fight the way they thought the first fight should've been scored. By the way, I had the 1st fight a draw. Lewis stopped fighting after round 8 and though he was ahead 4 points on my card, gave them all up.

Chavez was lost when fighting slick boxers? He damn near killed Meldrick, hammered the hell out of Hector Camacho and destroyed Roger Mayweather.

Ha, ha, finally I can defend my little boxing myth list. Camacho was finished. If he took on a pre Rosario, Camacho I'd agree with you. Meldrick was not a standard, stiff European type fighter but he was not what I'd call a mover. Movers hit without getting hit. Meldrick wanted to be Joe Frazier. I don't consider Roger M. in the same class as Julio. Julio was a great fighter, but his inability to fight slick fighters was exposed by Pernell Whitiker.

Well wait a gosh darned minute. If your standard is Sweet Pea what the hell does the entire comment mean?

I mean that's like saying he couldn't hit a Nolan Ryan fastball. It may be true but since there are very few guys with that fastball it's not very important is it? I mean how about Ruben Castillo or John Duplessis or Terence Ali?

BTW that's a great description of Meldrick "He wanted to be Joe Frazier."

chavez in his day was brillant and excellent in cutting the ring off.he was a fantastic body puncher while doing so and understood thats whats needed to slow down that moving target..he sliped punches well closed the distence fast and punched back to the body if he sliped your jab..yes chavez had some problems with a fluid side to side fighter but overcame that problem during the fight by doing what i just said...besides sweet pea like pep would give anyone problems with there movement and intelligent use of the ring.chavez wasnt alone in that department..