What Are Ben Askren's Chances vs Hornbuckle????

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The crux of my argument here is that a wrestler's purple is better than a non wrestlers due to the control and athleticism factor. This gentlemen should have been an indicator that I understand this reality.


Rashad has never been submitted or attempted a submission. I think I remember him in submission trouble exactly once in his whole career, and that was when Tito nearly tapped him due to an RNC.

Joe got sub'd by a fucking CALF SLICER(ya, in fact the only sub by this move in MMA ive ever heard of, seriously, who gets sub'd by calf slicers besides my seven year old against me?) once and has been sub'd like three times in his career.

Rashad's BJJ blackbelt is legit, just because he doesn't use it doesn't mean it isn't legit. Maybe farmer you could have cooked up a better combo of fighters to prove your point.

One of Joes sub losses was to Rafael Assauncao. Is his black belt worth more than Urijah Faber's athletic wrestling based purple belt? I don't think so. Game. Set. Match. Thank you, thank you, I quit my job a couple weeks ago so I'll be playing here all week!

Pretty close fight but I think Hornbuckle will sub him. Askren will get some takedowns but he still gets out of position quite often during scrambles on the ground. I think Horn will get him with a guillotine

Wrong Wolfy

Asken is going to win due to his wrestling, not his BJJ.

Just like Rashad and Faber can beat legit BJJ guys because of their wrestling.

Wrestling =/ BJJ.

yo um...isn't that basically what I said?

He will win because they have similar sub skills, but very different wrestling and athletic talents. Same essential argument pal. Anyway if Askren wins by control and fights off a bunch of sub attempts, he would have won thanks to his BJJ anyway.

Rafael who has a blackbelt, the guy who sub'd your Joe Lauzon, was sub'd by an athletic wrestler with a purple belt. Askren has a better shot of subbing Hornbuckle than vice versa.

farmer, I think you might have misread something I said. You're not making sense. Either that or you're just looking for a reason to argue. No time for that tonight man. Check the thread again please.

What I'm saying is buckle's bjj is better than askren easily. askren is good on the ground due to wrestling, not bjj. he's been dangerously close to being subbed.

the one big + for Askren, he doesnt give positioning up for a sub attempt (a Lions Den habit) I can see him controllng Hornbuckle with his wrestling and only going for something if Hornbuckle makes a mistake

Quote :

What I'm saying is buckle's bjj is better than askren easily. askren is good on the ground due to wrestling, not bjj. he's been dangerously close to being subbed.

And Buckle has been sub'd. I don't know that we can say that Hornbuckle's BJJ is all that much better. They both have purps, one has Olympic wrestling. Excuse me for taking the wrestler.

I'll take Hornbuckle standing or on the ground. Askren has looked vulnerable to subs, especially in his first fight with Ryan Thomas. His striking game leaves plenty to be desired and Dan has looked great in this tournament.

The same fight where a minute later he locked in a choke so tight the ref throught the guy was out? Ryan escaped any danger.

I just don't see him being submitted here.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

The same fight where a minute later he locked in a choke so tight the ref throught the guy was out? Ryan escaped any danger.

I just don't see him being submitted here.

The same fight where he got a loose submission and the ref made a bad call to stop the fight? Yes, that one.

Askren is going to be a force, but he's going up against somebody far more experienced, extremely dangerous, leaps better than anybody he has ever fought before, and in his prime....these factors spell disaster for Ben Askren. I can't wait for that event...I'm looking forward to Joe Warren vs. Patricio Pitbull about as much.

KingsOwn19 wrote:

Askren is going to be a force, but he's going up against somebody far more experienced, extremely dangerous, leaps better than anybody he has ever fought before, and in his prime....these factors spell disaster for Ben Askren. I can't wait for that event...I'm looking forward to Joe Warren vs. Patricio Pitbull about as much.

Me too, I'm torn on who to pick in that bout. I'm leaning toward Pitbull but Warren's wrestling is filthy. It should be a great BJJ vs. Wrestler matchup.

In that fight I'll take the Brazilian phenom BJJ blackbelt over the vulnerable Olympic caliber MMA rookie wrestler.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

In that fight I'll take the Brazilian phenom BJJ blackbelt over the vulnerable Olympic caliber MMA rookie wrestler.

That would seem to be the smart money. Warren is tough, though. Pitbull has been very impressive, he made Reis look like a white belt.

Pitbull is my pick as well...but you don't know. Warren is probably the best wrestler at FW and you will probably have to choke him out cold or break one of his limbs because he won't tap and will just keep raking up the points with those takedowns...but Warren has been getting caught in subs by just about everybody not nearly as good at Pitbbull on the mat...it's hard to pick against Pitbull against Warren and Soto IMO. Pitbull will probably end up as the best FW in the world outside of Aldo...who is his Team Nogueira brethren.

If Warren gives up that Olympic dream of his and works on his game he will end up the best FW in the world eventually. Aldo can sprawl on Faber and Brown, not Warren.

im gonna take warren i thknk

Anybody who has watched bellator this year has seen Askren look like a straight wrestler with fair sub skills, while Hornbuckle has looked like a straight JJ player, who has quickly put an end to each of his fights via sub's. I think Hornbuckle is by far the more dangerous submission fighter, and his length is a big part of that.

Hornbuckle pulled gaurd his last fight and took the first fight to the ground fairly quickly as well, but I think he'll try to keep this one standing and if indeed it goes to the ground, he'll work off his back. I'm picking Dan, but I could see Askren grind one out.

Oh wow I love the shit talk from Ben Askren.

Two lessions from tonights fight;


1. Don't doubt Ben Askren.

2. Don't doubt Wolf either.

Suck it bitches!!