Green Bays Fake FG last night

How should it be scored?

Fantasy football does not consider it a TD for the Def/ST unit. It is considered an offensive play (forward pass to eligible receiver) not a special teams play (FG attempt).

I see a lot of people saying that it should not count as an offensive play but as a special teams play and the points should be rewarded to the passer (contradiction already), receiver and the Def/ST unit.

One of my commissioners is saying he will add the 6 points for the guy who started the Packers D last night.

I'm of the opinion that an forward pass to an eligible receiver is an offensive play and the point should not be given to the Team Def/ST. Furthermore, if those points were assigned, it would be unfair to not also include the points from every field goal scored also to the Team Def/ST.

What say yall?

I didn't know that, I assumed it was considered to be a special teams TD. IMO it should be. I mean the fucking punter got credit for a TD pass to the backup TE. Yeah that just screams special teams to me. But I guess I really didn't give it much thought.
Ok let's just change the situation slightly, what if it isn't a planned fake? Like it's a bobbled snap and they somehow manage to break away for the TD?

That would be considered a rush.

So under your assumption no one would get the points? Since you can't have a punter as an individual on roster. Really the only people being effected if you do it that way would be the deffense for the other team for the points scored. Which is weird because the defense didn't even get scored on lol. Yeah it's a weird situation.

GDPofDRC wrote:

That would be considered a rush.

lol yes I know, but it's a rush no one would get credit for. It's a weird situation.

No, those players who made the pass and reception are eligible for the offensive points because they were in the act of an offensive play.

GDPofDRC wrote:

No, those players who made the pass and received are eligible for the offensive points because they were in the act of an offensive play.

The player that made the pass was a punter, you can't pickup a punter in any league I have ever played in. Also those players involved even if possible to put on your roster would never be started by anyone ever. So again it would be points that no one would get. I originally assumed it would be Special Teams. After more thought I can see where you are coming from. But still, I personally think it makes more sense to give it to special teams since it was a play ran by members of the special team vs members of the special team. Besides it has more of an effect on fantasy that way, otherwise it's pretty much wasted points. It's very rare that we see fakes go for TDs anyways.

How often does a fake punt or FG that results in a TD happen? I can't remember the last one.

This is a no brainer to me. The personnel ran an offensive play. It doesn't matter if no one owns them, that doesn't erase the fact that they ran an offensive play. A pass for a touchdown is not a special teams play on top of that, in FF, Team Def/ST doesn't score on plays in those situations anyways, they score against an offensive unit or when receiving a kickoff, punt or field goal, and blocking an punt, FG or extra point. Team Def/ST don't get point for making an FG or extra point, so why should they when scoring a touchdown?

But if you think the Team Def/ST should get those TD points then should they also get points for every FG, extra point and 2-pt conversion scored by the same logic?

Not even a year old.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d8232d7c1/WK-6-Can-t-Miss-Play-Fake-field-goal-TD

GDPofDRC wrote:

This is a no brainer to me. The personnel ran an offensive play. It doesn't matter if no one owns them, that doesn't erase the fact that they ran an offensive play. A pass for a touchdown is not a special teams play on top of that, in FF, Team Def/ST doesn't score on plays in those situations anyways, they score against an offensive unit or when receiving a kickoff, punt or field goal, and blocking an punt, FG or extra point. Team Def/ST don't get point for making an FG or extra point, so why should they when scoring a touchdown?

But if you think the Team Def/ST should get those TD points then should they also get points for every FG, extra point and 2-pt conversion scored by the same logic?

We the key difference there IMO is there is a specific slot for a kicker in fantasy. Everyone starts 1 kicker who primarily score their points on FG(they also get PAT). If there wasn't a kicker then I think it would make sense to add the FGs to D/ST, but there is a kicker specifically for those points. Same for 2 point conversions, those are done by players that are generally on someones roster in every league. IMO everything changes when you got the special teamers out there since they aren't going to be on anyone's roster, making them somewhat lost points.

GDPofDRC wrote:

Not even a year old.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d8232d7c1/WK-6-Can-t-Miss-Play-Fake-field-goal-TD

Is the average less then 1 per season? Or does it just seem that way?

OU wrote:

GDPofDRC wrote:

This is a no brainer to me. The personnel ran an offensive play. It doesn't matter if no one owns them, that doesn't erase the fact that they ran an offensive play. A pass for a touchdown is not a special teams play on top of that, in FF, Team Def/ST doesn't score on plays in those situations anyways, they score against an offensive unit or when receiving a kickoff, punt or field goal, and blocking an punt, FG or extra point. Team Def/ST don't get point for making an FG or extra point, so why should they when scoring a touchdown?

But if you think the Team Def/ST should get those TD points then should they also get points for every FG, extra point and 2-pt conversion scored by the same logic?

We the key difference there IMO is there is a specific slot for a kicker in fantasy. Everyone starts 1 kicker who primarily score their points on FG(they also get PAT). If there wasn't a kicker then I think it would make sense to add the FGs to D/ST, but there is a kicker specifically for those points. Same for 2 point conversions, those are done by players that are generally on someones roster in every league. IMO everything changes when you got the special teamers out there since they aren't going to be on anyone's roster, making them somewhat lost points.

Why does the rate of ownership for a player have any relevance to this?

Also when the score happens it's not lost points, it's points against the Team Def/ST that allows the score.

OU wrote:

GDPofDRC wrote:

Not even a year old.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d8232d7c1/WK-6-Can-t-Miss-Play-Fake-field-goal-TD

Is the average less then 1 per season? Or does it just seem that way?

You ask and get an example and it's not enough. If you wanna know figure it out yourself and also, why doe the frequency matter anyways?

GDPofDRC wrote:

OU wrote:

GDPofDRC wrote:

This is a no brainer to me. The personnel ran an offensive play. It doesn't matter if no one owns them, that doesn't erase the fact that they ran an offensive play. A pass for a touchdown is not a special teams play on top of that, in FF, Team Def/ST doesn't score on plays in those situations anyways, they score against an offensive unit or when receiving a kickoff, punt or field goal, and blocking an punt, FG or extra point. Team Def/ST don't get point for making an FG or extra point, so why should they when scoring a touchdown?

But if you think the Team Def/ST should get those TD points then should they also get points for every FG, extra point and 2-pt conversion scored by the same logic?

We the key difference there IMO is there is a specific slot for a kicker in fantasy. Everyone starts 1 kicker who primarily score their points on FG(they also get PAT). If there wasn't a kicker then I think it would make sense to add the FGs to D/ST, but there is a kicker specifically for those points. Same for 2 point conversions, those are done by players that are generally on someones roster in every league. IMO everything changes when you got the special teamers out there since they aren't going to be on anyone's roster, making them somewhat lost points.

Why does the rate of ownership for a player have any relevance to this?

Also when the score happens it's not lost points, it's points against the Team Def/ST that allows the score.

IMO it's very important. Some of those players aren't even eligible to have on your team. It makes those extremely rare points mean much more. We are talking about something that probably won't happen again this season. I just think you want those kind of moments to mean alot, it's just so rare that it happens. Outside of the return game there really is no other way for the special teams to score. IMO it just makes sense to add this rare event to the special teams points. I think you need to count those points the best way you can. Obviously it goes down as points scored but outside of that no individual player will realistically score any points for any team since even the players eligible to be picked up won't be. Again, that's just how I see it.

GDPofDRC wrote:

OU wrote:

GDPofDRC wrote:

Not even a year old.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d8232d7c1/WK-6-Can-t-Miss-Play-Fake-field-goal-TD

Is the average less then 1 per season? Or does it just seem that way?

You ask and get an example and it's not enough. If you wanna know figure it out yourself and also, why doe the frequency matter anyways?

I wasn't asking you to provide an example, although I'm glad you did cause they are also pretty cool to see. I was just wondering out loud, I don't even know where to find such a stat? The frequency matters to me because if it happened more often then I could see singling out the individuals. But since this shit happens once in a blue moon then IMO there is no reason to assign the points to individual players. You don't think eligibility of players involved or the rarity of the occurrence play any factor and IMO it's only logical to factor that in. You mad bro?

Why did you even ask the question? Were you just hoping for someone to agree with you? Did this effect your team in such a negative way that you are just touchy on the subject? I'm just giving my honest thoughts on the subject.

Sorry, but the nobody owns this guy because he is a third string TE is the reason the Team DEF/ST should get points for an offensive play holds no water for me. And if Punters were eligible, the same applies, no one would start them based on fake potential alone. It doesn't matter what string or what % of owners have that player on their team or started. That has no real relevance. The way Team Def/ST is scored in FF has been the same for at least my 9 years in it. The rules are known. You get points for Team Def/ST for certain plays, and offensive plays are not among them.

I don't think frequency has any relevance at all. It is a play, a team can choose to do it whenever they want and it is and has been accounted for in the basic FF scoring format for years now, people should know this.

It is not a defensive or special teams play. That is a fact. That is why this is simply a no brainer decision and has been for at least my nine years with no controversy what so ever.

OU wrote:

Why did you even ask the question? Were you just hoping for someone to agree with you? Did this effect your team in such a negative way that you are just touchy on the subject? I'm just giving my honest thoughts on the subject.

I like to see what people think. Nobody has to agree with me about anything, but there is not a good argument I have heard yet imo and I don't have a problem pointing out why I think so. It had no effect on my team this week.

GDPofDRC wrote:

Sorry, but the nobody owns this guy because he is a third string TE is the reason the Team DEF/ST should get points for an offensive play holds no water for me. And if Punters were eligible, the same applies, no one would start them based on fake potential alone. It doesn't matter what string or what % of owners have that player on their team or started. That has no real relevance. The way Team Def/ST is scored in FF has been the same for at least my 9 years in it. The rules are known. You get points for Team Def/ST for certain plays, and offensive plays are not among them.

I don't think frequency has any relevance at all. It is a play, a team can choose to do it whenever they want and it is and has been accounted for in the basic FF scoring format for years now, people should know this.

It is not a defensive or special teams play. That is a fact. That is why this is simply a no brainer decision and has been for at least my nine years with no controversy what so ever.

Seriously, you think most people are aware of how these things are scored? With how rare this is? I have never been effected by such play, it has never come up in any league I have ever played. If this is a simple no brainer decision then why did you ask the question? Why did you imply there is a debate? I bet less then 10% of even long time fantasy owners even know how it's scored...because it's so damn rare.

GDPofDRC wrote:

OU wrote:

Why did you even ask the question? Were you just hoping for someone to agree with you? Did this effect your team in such a negative way that you are just touchy on the subject? I'm just giving my honest thoughts on the subject.

I like to see what people think. Nobody has to agree with me about anything, but there is not a good argument I have heard yet imo and I don't have a problem pointing out why I think so. It had no effect on my team this week.

I can understand both sides, really though it doesn't even matter because this shit almost never happens. It's like that weird drop kick rule where you can get 1 point by punting it through the uprights or some shit? I don't even know the rule I just remember hearing about it awhile back when some QB(I think it was Flutie?) kicked the ball through the uprights for 1 point. Fake FG and Punts that result in TDs are extremely rare. Which is why you even have the confusion when it does happen. It's not something you see every game.

OU wrote:

GDPofDRC wrote:

Sorry, but the nobody owns this guy because he is a third string TE is the reason the Team DEF/ST should get points for an offensive play holds no water for me. And if Punters were eligible, the same applies, no one would start them based on fake potential alone. It doesn't matter what string or what % of owners have that player on their team or started. That has no real relevance. The way Team Def/ST is scored in FF has been the same for at least my 9 years in it. The rules are known. You get points for Team Def/ST for certain plays, and offensive plays are not among them.

I don't think frequency has any relevance at all. It is a play, a team can choose to do it whenever they want and it is and has been accounted for in the basic FF scoring format for years now, people should know this.

It is not a defensive or special teams play. That is a fact. That is why this is simply a no brainer decision and has been for at least my nine years with no controversy what so ever.

Seriously, you think most people are aware of how these things are scored? With how rare this is? I have never been effected by such play, it has never come up in any league I have ever played. If this is a simple no brainer decision then why did you ask the question? Why did you imply there is a debate? I bet less then 10% of even long time fantasy owners even know how it's scored...because it's so damn rare.

Yes, everyone should be aware of it. A forward pass to an eligible receiver is an offensive play no matter how you shake it. One of the most basic rules in FF.

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/football/ffl/story?id=8376801

What makes for a special teams touchdown?

The Green Bay Packers' first touchdown in Thursday's game came courtesy of a trick play, when the field goal unit lined up for what appeared to be a 42-yard attempt. The ball was snapped to holder Tim Masthay -- who also serves as the punter -- who flipped a short pass to tight end Tom Crabtree, who rumbled to the end zone for the touchdown.

The scoring on the play therefore goes down as a 27-yard touchdown pass from Masthay to Crabtree. Why not credit the special teams unit, since the "field goal unit" is traditionally part of "special teams?" Because special teams scoring does not account for passing touchdowns; only return touchdowns are scored, as clearly stated in the ESPN Scoring Settings for Standard Leagues. Defense/Special teams receive credit for return touchdowns, having gained possession of the ball after the opposing team has snapped it and either kicked it, fumbled it or had it intercepted. There is no circumstance in which a Defense/Special Teams unit can be credited for a touchdown pass or reception.

The reason behind this limitation is to avoid having interpretation of intent influence a scoring play. If Aaron Rodgers were the holder on field goal attempts and he had been the one to flip the ball to Crabtree, it would be obvious that he should be credited for a 27-yard touchdown pass, just as Crabtree, who is unowned in ESPN standard leagues, is credited for a 27-yard touchdown reception. And yes, this does mean that, if you own Masthay in an ESPN standard league which rosters punters, your received a nice scoring bonus of however your league settings score 27-passing yards and a touchdown pass out of your punter slot. But you won't get the same from the Packers' D/ST.

GDPofDRC wrote:

OU wrote:

GDPofDRC wrote:

Sorry, but the nobody owns this guy because he is a third string TE is the reason the Team DEF/ST should get points for an offensive play holds no water for me. And if Punters were eligible, the same applies, no one would start them based on fake potential alone. It doesn't matter what string or what % of owners have that player on their team or started. That has no real relevance. The way Team Def/ST is scored in FF has been the same for at least my 9 years in it. The rules are known. You get points for Team Def/ST for certain plays, and offensive plays are not among them.

I don't think frequency has any relevance at all. It is a play, a team can choose to do it whenever they want and it is and has been accounted for in the basic FF scoring format for years now, people should know this.

It is not a defensive or special teams play. That is a fact. That is why this is simply a no brainer decision and has been for at least my nine years with no controversy what so ever.

Seriously, you think most people are aware of how these things are scored? With how rare this is? I have never been effected by such play, it has never come up in any league I have ever played. If this is a simple no brainer decision then why did you ask the question? Why did you imply there is a debate? I bet less then 10% of even long time fantasy owners even know how it's scored...because it's so damn rare.

Yes, everyone should be aware of it. A forward pass to an eligible receiver is an offensive play no matter how you shake it. One of the most basic rules in FF.

Come on now man, you act like it's crazy to question whether this special circumstance would still be counted the same as standard pass ran by the offense in standard formation. This is obviously a unique situation. Who even fucking thinks about fake FG touchdowns when they play fantasy? People won't even think about it until it happens. It's perfectly reasonable to assume a play ran by the special teams in a special teams formation be scored for the special teams. If you play Madden and you want to run that play, you got to go to your special teams. Yes, you are correct, at the end of the day it is a forward pass that is caught for a TD. Like I said I get that side of the argument. But it's just silly to dismiss the other side of the argument altogether because you don't agree. It's very easy to see why someone would think it could be scored for the special teams. To go as far as to say everyone who plays fantasy football should be aware of this and call it "basic" is just silly. A fake FG for a TD is anything but a basic football play. It's a trick play and not something most people think about until it actually happens.

OU wrote:

GDPofDRC wrote:

OU wrote:

GDPofDRC wrote:

Sorry, but the nobody owns this guy because he is a third string TE is the reason the Team DEF/ST should get points for an offensive play holds no water for me. And if Punters were eligible, the same applies, no one would start them based on fake potential alone. It doesn't matter what string or what % of owners have that player on their team or started. That has no real relevance. The way Team Def/ST is scored in FF has been the same for at least my 9 years in it. The rules are known. You get points for Team Def/ST for certain plays, and offensive plays are not among them.

I don't think frequency has any relevance at all. It is a play, a team can choose to do it whenever they want and it is and has been accounted for in the basic FF scoring format for years now, people should know this.

It is not a defensive or special teams play. That is a fact. That is why this is simply a no brainer decision and has been for at least my nine years with no controversy what so ever.

Seriously, you think most people are aware of how these things are scored? With how rare this is? I have never been effected by such play, it has never come up in any league I have ever played. If this is a simple no brainer decision then why did you ask the question? Why did you imply there is a debate? I bet less then 10% of even long time fantasy owners even know how it's scored...because it's so damn rare.

Yes, everyone should be aware of it. A forward pass to an eligible receiver is an offensive play no matter how you shake it. One of the most basic rules in FF.

Come on now man, you act like it's crazy to question whether this special circumstance would still be counted the same as standard pass ran by the offense in standard formation. This is obviously a unique situation. Who even fucking thinks about fake FG touchdowns when they play fantasy? People won't even think about it until it happens. It's perfectly reasonable to assume a play ran by the special teams in a special teams formation be scored for the special teams. If you play Madden and you want to run that play, you got to go to your special teams. Yes, you are correct, at the end of the day it is a forward pass that is caught for a TD. Like I said I get that side of the argument. But it's just silly to dismiss the other side of the argument altogether because you don't agree. It's very easy to see why someone would think it could be scored for the special teams. To go as far as to say everyone who plays fantasy football should be aware of this and call it "basic" is just silly. A fake FG for a TD is anything but a basic football play. It's a trick play and not something most people think about until it actually happens.

There is no real way to sugar coat it. A forward pass to an eligible receiver is an offensive play. That is not an opinion.



NFL rules view a FG fake as an offensive play, there is no
circumstance in which a Defense/Special Teams unit can be credited for a
touchdown pass or reception. Yahoo! adheres to this rule when scoring
Defense/Special Team plays.

Special Teams touchdowns only account for return touchdowns, that is,
when the defense gains possession of the ball after the opposing team
has kicked the ball, or snapped the ball and either fumbled or had it
intercepted.

Sorry to disappoint, but the GB defense will not get credit for this
play. BUT, anyone owning Masthay will get a nice scoring bonus for the
touchdown.

Yahoo! follows the NFL's scoring decision with fake FG attempts. You
can find the details of special team scoring for touchdowns in our
Yahoo! Help article, where it states that only return touchdowns are
included:

Scoring kickoff and punt return yards and touchdowns in Fantasy Football

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