Romney Picks Paul Ryan as Vice President

meanwhile, I can present facts that Ryans plan would ill Medicare.

Want to debate that? Didn't think so , all you can come up with is , what rich people are rich whats wrong with that?

Nothing, but when you want to kill medicare to have another tax break, in 4 words, you can fuck off (Paul Ryan not you)

bird you do realize fact check is owned by George Soros and the Annenburg Project so farmer can just bring that into play if your going to site as your source of information. Disclaimer** most information is biased in some way and finding truly non partisan information would make one go gray***

but glad to see some chatter on NP even if it is politics

Bird, You can post that fact check BS all you want. Have you read the CBO letter from July?

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/43471-hr6079.pdf

$260 billion pay cut for hospital services.
$39 billion pay cut for skilled nursing services.
$17 billion pay cut for hospice services.
$66 billion pay cut for home health services.
$33 billion pay cut for all other services.
$156 billion pay cut of rates in MA
$56 billion in cuts for DSH payments

627 billion in cuts and I probably missed some. So my statement that 'Obamacare cuts Medicare.' is fact. Now apologize for calling me a liar.

Cu Bu wrote:

bird you do realize fact check is owned by George Soros and the Annenburg Project so farmer can just bring that into play if your going to site as your source of information. Disclaimer** most information is biased in some way and finding truly non partisan information would make one go gray***

but glad to see some chatter on NP even if it is politics

This is just blatantly untrue. George Soros has nothing to do with factcheck, you're completely wrong about that and must have gotten that information from Glenn Beck or someone. And do you know what the Annenburg Project is. It is a philanthropic organization started by prominent Republican Walter Annenberg. I don't know why that would be used against the point Bird made.

Cubua if you want to stand by a blatant lie being told at least fuckig realize that your beloved Romney and Ryan proposed and supported these "cuts" .

This shows how flustered Romneys bullshit campaign is , an attack add that isn't even true, based on a lie that Romney and Ryan actually support .

thank you for pointing out that Obama cut big government spending while not effecting the recipients of medicare.

Have fun defending the guys who want to end medicare and justify another tax break.

Birdofthad wrote:

thank you for pointing out that Obama cut big government spending while not effecting the recipients of medicare.

Have fun defending the guys who want to end medicare and justify another tax break.

So did I lie?

Thomasdrrn09 wrote:

Cu Bu wrote:

bird you do realize fact check is owned by George Soros and the Annenburg Project so farmer can just bring that into play if your going to site as your source of information. Disclaimer** most information is biased in some way and finding truly non partisan information would make one go gray***

but glad to see some chatter on NP even if it is politics

This is just blatantly untrue. George Soros has nothing to do with factcheck, you're completely wrong about that and must have gotten that information from Glenn Beck or someone. And do you know what the Annenburg Project is. It is a philanthropic organization started by prominent Republican Walter Annenberg. I don't know why that would be used against the point Bird made.

"It (factcheck.org) is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania, and is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation."

"Barack Obama was a founding member, chairman, and president of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, which was also funded by the Annenberg Foundation." *****not saying anything other than President obama has benefited from Annenberg****

gistrant ID:C36603267-RCOM
Registrant Name:Brooks Jackson
Registrant Organization:Annenberg Public Policy Center
Registrant Street1:320 National Press Building
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Washington
Registrant State/Province:DC
Registrant Postal Code:20045
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.2028796708
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
brooks Jackson journalist cnn


I was wrong he is not on the registrant but he funds the group which is the registrant organization

Farmer1906 wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

thank you for pointing out that Obama cut big government spending while not effecting the recipients of medicare.

Have fun defending the guys who want to end medicare and justify another tax break.

So did I lie?

hahah yes you lied, dumbs you claimed he took 716 billion from the people of medicare, in fact he reduced big government spending on the insurance company side, which made it more affordable and actually added years to the medicare that your Paul Ryan wants to end.

YES you lied, I think its clear now your to stupid to understand or comprehend that you lied though.

Birdofthad wrote:

Farmer1906 wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

thank you for pointing out that Obama cut big government spending while not effecting the recipients of medicare.

Have fun defending the guys who want to end medicare and justify another tax break.

So did I lie?

hahah yes you lied, dumbs you claimed he took 716 billion from the people of medicare, in fact he reduced big government spending on the insurance company side, which made it more affordable and actually added years to the medicare that your Paul Ryan wants to end.

YES you lied, I think its clear now your to stupid to understand or comprehend that you lied though.

I didn't say 716. Mittens did. I just shared it with the board. I also read what the Cbo said and posted what was cut. You respond by calling me dumb and a liar.

Are you familiar with the saying "never argue with an idiot. He will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience." I think we've reached that point.

sorry Farmer but you presented a flat out blatant, disproven lie, as a fact

you were wrong. Sorry I pointed that out.

Guess who stumped against the Paul Ryan Plan today?

Paul Ryan.

If that doesn't tell you all you need to know on this issue, then I don't think you ever will. Thats right, the guy who created the plan your so vigorously defended, came out today, and bashed his own plan. Why? Because they realized how fucked they are in this medicare debate, thats why they have resorted to lying and stumping against their own plan.

But while slamming Obama for Medicare cuts, Ryan failed to mention that his own plan actually leaves Obama's savings in place.

Medicare has become a focal point in the presidential election, as Ryan's controversial budget -- the ideological backbone of the House Republican agenda -- would drastically overhaul the current Medicare system.

The Romney-Ryan campaign, likely anticipating a slew of attacks over Medicare, quickly went on offense. Days after Ryan joined the ticket, the campaign released an ad accusing Obama of cutting more than $700 billion from Medicare.


HuffPost's Sam Stein reports there are two things wrong with that:

The first is that Obama didn't necessarily "cut" Medicare; he limited the expected rate of growth in the program on the supplier side by eliminating waste, fraud and abuse, mostly in Medicare Advantage. And the savings that Obama achieved are adopted by Ryan in his own budget.
The Obama campaign responded swiftly to Ryan's comments Wednesday night. “Today, Mitt Romney forced Paul Ryan to attack his own budget," Obama campaign spokesman Danny Kanner said in a statement. "Congressman Ryan knows that the $716 billion in Medicare savings that he included in two of his own budgets do not cut a single guaranteed Medicare benefit. It’s a shame that someone picked for his ‘strong beliefs’ is now abandoning them just to help Mr. Romney score a political point."

Birdofthad wrote:

sorry Farmer but you presented a flat out blatant, disproven lie, as a fact

you were wrong. Sorry I pointed that out.

Facts from the cbo. Have you read it yet?

hahah Farmer doesn't like facts, you probably think Hawaii has been in on a 49 year conspiracy as well. Sorry Im done discussing this one, you are flat out wrong.

So I'll take the non answer as a no as you bring up unrelated gribberish.

ya I have read the CBO guess what they said about Obama? that he would achieve Medicare and Medicaid savings by cutting provider payments.

An analysis of President Obama's proposed fiscal 2013 budget found it would lower government spending on Medicare by $276 billion and Medicaid by $66 billion over 10 year


straight from your CBO, some more Factss that go against blatant republican lies for ya

o does it “cut” Medicare by $500 billion?
Medicare spending will continue to grow, according to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS), but ACA will slow that growth. According to a report from the Kaiser Family Health Foundation over the next 10 years, the federal government will devote about $500 billion less to Medicare than it would have without ACA.
CMS and the Kaiser Family Foundation tell ABC News that there will be no benefit cuts to Medicare. They say instead of Medicare’s being cut, there will be much more spending at the end of a 10-year window, but it does slow the rate of that growth. This is all unless Congress makes drastic changes to Medicare, for example passing House Budget Chairman Rep. Paul Ryan’s Medicare Plan.
CMS says—and Kaiser agrees—that spending will be reduced by getting rid of fraud and ending overpayments to private insurance companies. It sends a message to those insurance companies: Operate more efficiently.
And instead of cuts, the CMS says they will be able to fund new benefits, including free preventive care and broader prescription coverage, including closing the “doughnut hole” affecting seniors.

The USA Today explains seniors have saved $687 million in prescription prices courtesy of Obamacare through the first 6 months of 2012 HERE:

In the first six months of this year, more than 1 million seniors and people with disabilities saved $687 million on prescription drugs in the doughnut hole — or the gap between traditional and catastrophic coverage in the Part D drug benefit — as part of the health care law, Health and Human Services plans to announce Wednesday.

That’s an average of $629 per patient.

As part of the 2010 health care law, drugmakers participating in the program had to give the government a 50% break on premium drugs and 14% on generic drugs, which the government then passed on to seniors. In 2012, the coverage gap is $2,930. The health care law eliminates the doughnut hole by 2020.



Now guess what Farmer, all of this shit, that Obama didn't do, that your acting like is so awful, guess who has proposed to do just that? Paul Ryan

And Talking Points Memo explains that both President Obama and Paul Ryan agree cuts in Medicare need to be made. President Obama thinks cuts should be made on the provider side (insurance companies, doctors etc) and Paul Ryan wants to make the cuts on the beneficiary side i.e. seniors. They explain HERE:

Ryan’s Medicare plan focuses its cuts on the beneficiary side. It converts the insurance program into a fixed subsidy that seniors can use to buy policies from a menu or private options and a government option. If the value of the subsidy doesn’t keep up with medical cost inflation, seniors will have to pay more out of pocket to get the same care.

Obama and Ryan agree that Medicare per-beneficiary spending should be capped at per-capita GDP plus 0.5 percent, but disagree on what to cut in order to get there.

The Congressional Budget Office explains that repealing Obamacare would increase Medicare costs i.e. waste, fraud, abuse by $716 billion over 10 years. In other words – repealing Obamacare BANKRUPTS Medicare by giving more money to insurance companies and hospitals. You can read that on page 13 HERE:

Many of the other provisions that would be repealed by enacting H.R. 6079 affect spending for Medicare, Medicaid, and other federal programs. The ACA made numerous changes to payment rates and payment rules in those programs, established a voluntary federal program for long-term care insurance through the Community Living Assistance Services and Supports (CLASS) provisions, and made certain other changes to federal health programs. In total, CBO estimates that repealing those provisions would increase net federal spending by $711 billion over the 2013–2022 period. (Those budgetary effects are summarized in Table 1.) Spending for Medicare would increase by an estimated $716 billion over that 2013–2022 period. Federal spending for Medicaid and CHIP would increase by about $25 billion from repealing the noncoverage provisions of the ACA, and direct spending for other programs would decrease by about $30 billion, CBO estimates.

They then continue to explain WHERE these Obamacare saves money relative to Medicare:

The provisions whose repeal would result in the largest increases in federal deficits include the following (all estimates are for the 2013–2022 period):
● Repeal of the reductions in the annual updates to Medicare’s payment rates for most services in the fee-for-service sector (other than physicians’ services) would increase Medicare outlays by $415 billion. (That figure excludes interactions between those provisions and others—namely, the effects of those changes on payments to Medicare Advantage plans and collections of Part B premiums.) Of that amount, higher payments for hospital services account for $260 billion; for skilled nursing services, $39 billion; for hospice services, $17 billion; for home health services, $66 billion; and for all other services, $33 billion.
● Repeal of the new mechanism for setting payment rates in the Medicare Advantage program would increase Medicare outlays by $156 billion (before considering interactions with other provisions).
● Repeal of the reductions in Medicaid and Medicare payments to hospitals that serve a large number of low-income patients, known as disproportionate share hospitals (DSH), would increase federal spending by $56 billion.
● Repeal of other provisions pertaining to Medicare, Medicaid, and CHIP (other than the coverage-related provisions discussed earlier) would increase federal spending by $114 billion.7 That figure includes a $3 billion increase in spending from eliminating the Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB).8 Under current law, the IPAB will be required, under certain circumstances, to recommend changes to the Medicare program to reduce that program’s spending; such changes will go into effect automatically.



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thanks for sending me to the CBO farmer, they also say Obama saved Medicare money!

GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney's new promise to restore the Medicare cuts made by President Barack Obama's health care overhaul law could backfire if he's elected.

The reason: Obama's cuts also extended the life of Medicare's giant trust fund. By repealing them, Romney would move the program's insolvency eight years closer, toward the end of what would be his first term in office.

Instead of running out of money in 2024, Medicare's trust fund for inpatient care would go broke in 2016 without the cuts, according to estimates by the program's own experts.

That could leave a President Romney little political breathing room to execute his own Medicare plan. Outside experts say it could force deeper cuts, and sooner.

But Obama's cuts were not directly aimed at Medicare's 48 million beneficiaries; instead they affect hospitals, insurers, nursing homes, drug companies and other service providers. Simply undoing the cuts would restore higher payments to those service providers. And that would cause Medicare to spend money faster.

The Obama campaign was quick to seize on the issue.

"The fact of the matter is, what Romney is proposing now is to roll all that back, which would mean that Medicare would reach insolvency eight years earlier, which would mean that seniors would lose benefits," David Axelrod, a senior political adviser to Obama, said Thursday on MSNBC's "Morning Joe."

Romney's running mate, Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan, kept the Obama cuts in his budget, which envisions greater savings by shifting future retirees into private insurance plans with a fixed payment from the government to help cover their premiums.

"If you are going to restore (Obama's cuts), then what it's going to do is complicate the financial condition of Medicare," said former U.S. Comptroller General David Walker, a fiscal conservative who says government health care programs are too costly.

"It's going to affect your long-term plan to reform Medicare and reduce the deficit and mounting debt burdens," said Walker, now heading the Comeback America Initiative, which promotes deficit reduction.