MMA RANKINGS - CHAPTER 1...

tolivendiewithLA wrote:

Call me LA, it's easier, but
Its' tough to say, I do think Brock is legit, and the 2nd best HW right now, but ur making some of the most talented fighters in the World Brock's size, they'd hold a lot of advantages.

Shogun wasn't near my top 10 before the fight, tough to say exactly where cause all the other fights that have went on since then, like if he loses again, but it's not close, he moves to the high teens, a close fight but loss, tough to say, win he's 5th

hahah ok will do, I agree Brock probably losses to the top 5 I just dont think he is a slouch in those losses and beats some, for that he is top 15-25 worthy

Definently agree on Rua, even though I bet on him vs Machida, I didnt have him anywhere near the top 10. That fight is the main reason for my lower normal ranking of Machida

If you take Brock and put him at middle weight, he is Jake Rosholt or Mark Munoz. At LW he is Maynard two years ago. At LHW he is Ryan Bader. At WW he is Josh Koscheck three or four years ago.

Pound for pound represents all things size being equal, who is the most skilled. Brock has typical early wrestler skillset, but is just so huge he is able to crush guys. Also I don't see his competition as stiff as others do.

Rua is p4p because he was many people's number 1 before his injury and his last two fights represent a fighter who is back to that level.

tolivendiewithLA wrote:

He doesn't have the wins yet, P4P isn't exactly like list your 20 best fighters in the World, other things come into play.

But back to ur BJ or GSP thing, if those guys are Brocks size, they, in GSP case have equal or better wrestling, better standup, JJ ect. and BJ is one of the hardest guys to take down in MMA, with sick JJ an maybe the best Boxing in MMA, Brock's advantages at HW are incredible size, strength and athletism, but he's not as talented a fighter as either of those guys, or many others, if they're his size, they're better.

LA thats tough to say cause if they were as big as Brock they may not have the same skill set. They may have trained differently through out there lives so to say if they were Brocks size they would beat Brock although it maybe right u cant be sure.

That's over analyzing it, like Wolf says, P4P represents all things size being equal, then fighters skill levels, quality of wins comes in to play, as well as wins in mulitple divisions vs. quality opponents.

Birdofthad wrote:

so you dont thin k ablown up B J or GSP would be on his back vs Brock I do

Doesnt mean Im right though

I think kicking the shit out of Mir is worthy

Why do you think that? Josh Koscheck has a better pedigree than Lesnar does and is more well rounded in MMA and couldn't get GSP down. The only person who has ever gotten BJ down is GSP. The major knock on Lesnar has always been, even back in his college days if you read old wrestling materials, is that he is more reliant on size than skill, and it is well known that larger wrestlers use strength more than skill, and typically the smaller guys are more skilled.

Brock also was away from his wrestling for many years while in the WWE and NFL. You can't maintain your skillset in martial arts at the highest level if you don't practice it for 8 years.

Mir himself has noted his wrestling has always been below average for MMA as recently as his very last hype video.

Lesnar's skills might actually be less effective than any number of other D1 former champions in light of this. Brock is everything p4p stands against.






Is that troll David Haye fought a p4p type fighter?

1. Fedor (No brainer)
2. GSP (The domination over the top competition seals it)
3. Anderson (Dominant yes, but hasn't beaten a true top fighter since Hendo)
4. BJ (A league all his own at LW and a top-3 IMO at WW)
5. Machida (razor thin fight against Shogun hurts)
6. Shogun (Blow for blow against Machida and should have taken it IMO)
7. Mousasi (IMO a legit threat to anyone in the most stacked division)
8. Aldo (Has shown brilliance in his rise, but needs more than one top-10 test to move up)
9. Bowles (Shocked most by beating Torres, but falls in same category as Aldo)
10. Hendo (A legit top-5 in two weight classes - even at 39)
11. MTB (Beat Urijah 1½ times and looked great again Sunday)
12. Torres (Spotless resume until Bowles took him down)
13. Marquardt (Amazing resume other than Anderson and a sloppy fight v. Leites)
14. Fitch (Shows the gap between #1 and #2 at WW)
15. Aoki (Shows the gap between #1 and #2 at LW)
16. Faber (Fell fast after the MTB fights, but will rise again IMO)
17. Shields (A legit threat at WW and MW)
18. Brock (Knock it if you must, but he holds the biggest belt in the sport)
19. Nog (Hasn't looked the same in recent fights, but you can't ignore the resume)
20. Alves (We'll see if he can avenge the Fitch loss, but both are miles behind GSP)

HM - Evans, Florian, Mir, Belfort, Koscheck, Alvarez and Diego

Is the belt really worth that much LTFG. If Florian and Lesnar were in the same body and faced off, Brock would win?

Quote :

8. Aldo (Has shown brilliance in his rise, but needs more than one top-10 test to move up)
9. Bowles (Shocked most by beating Torres, but falls in same category as Aldo)

Check da record pops, Bowles has minimum of four top ten wins and arguably five, depending on how you want to see Charlie Valencia when they met. Bowles has also been in the WEC fighting top ten guys longer than Torres.

The only difference between Torres and Bowles record wise is Torres has 30+ wins over 0-1 fighters in the Northern Indiana club circut. His record prior to the WEC was a J O K E.

Brian Bowles, champion, and criminally undersung. Not for long. He is a monster.

Valencia? Please... I would possibly give you Ribeiro, but Page and Galvao are mid level talents at best. Torres will take back what's his in the rematch... IF Bowles can get by Cruz...

Page is currently number eight on Sherdog, Valencia is listed in "other contenders" and has been in and out of various top ten lists, and Galvo was still listed in the top ten as late as last year and when he lost to Page iirc.

Facts my friends, are facts. Bowles has a better WEC record than Torres. When ya wrong gramps, you're wrong!

Pshhhh... Sherdog's rankings have always been a joke and you know it. Going that route as a source is like using LA as your source for career planning. We can take this up when the rematch is set... IF Bowles beats Cruz...

tolivendiewithLA wrote:

That's over analyzing it, like Wolf says, P4P represents all things size being equal, then fighters skill levels, quality of wins comes in to play, as well as wins in mulitple divisions vs. quality opponents.

I get what P4P is, I just think if all these guys were in Heavyweight Brock still gives them hell of a fight. and beats some of them.

But I get what yall are saying

1. Anderson Silva - Simply the best
2. GSP - Simply the 2nd best
3. Fedor - Needs to fight better competition
4. BJ - If he keeps his conditioning where it has been, he will knock Fedor down a notch
5. Machida - Had a sub-par performance against Shogun and still won
6. Brock - Possibly the most dangerous HW in the history of MMA
7. Aldo - This guy is on fire
8. Bowles - Gets better and better
9. Torres - Repeatedly claims to be improving and regards loss as a good thing
10. Henderson - He is the epitome of electric personality
11. Florian - After a tough loss, disposed of one of the most tenacious fighters in the game
12. Faber - Looking great after broken hands healed, wants the belt around his waist
13. MTB - Faber's kryptonite
14. Mir - the number 3 HW in the world
15. Mousasi - Looked a little shaky in last bout, but prevailed
16. Rua - Looking more and more like the dangerous Shogun of old
17. Marquardt - One of 2 fighter in the MW division who could honestly beat Silva
18. Big Nog - A little past his prime, but tough as nails
19. Fitch - Hasn't looked as good as he used to since the GSP fight, but keeps on winning
20. Thiago Alves - Gets a chance to avenge loss to Fitch, while still licking his wounds from
getting schooled by GSP

Brock at #6? Faber above MTB? Shogun at #16 behind guys like Mousasi? The first 5 are good but the rest? Nobody has Brock that high and in front of Aldo even? This makes my brain hurt. Andrew are you feeling ok?

can we start a petition to not count andrews rankings at all?

With no offense meant, he is the champion of the best HW division in MMA, so it is not that far of a stretch and unlike Aldo, he has defended his belt. As for Rua? he is 2-2 in his last four bouts. I gave him credit and still put him in the top 20.

Wolf, I thought you would love mine, especially my comment on Hendo and yes mine should count since my "On the record" record is better than yours. So obviously, I know some things.

Brock the most dangerous HW in the history of MMA? Who are you trying to fool?

Tell that to to the 31 men that have lost to a certain Russian Heavyweight

oggy420 wrote:

Brock the most dangerous HW in the history of MMA? Who are you trying to fool?

Tell that to to the 31 men that have lost to a certain Russian Heavyweight

Hence the word possibly. Do you guys fucking know how to read or what? I will also point out that Fedor is higher rated than Brock.

no he's not possibly. When he beats every relevant HW in history or beats the man himself, then you can call him that. Right now you cant.

Ya he has beaten one legit HW in the UFC who isnt mid 40s and even then he only is a push with him right now. Brock isn't even the best UFC HW and at no point has been.

Birdofthad wrote:

tolivendiewithLA wrote:

That's over analyzing it, like Wolf says, P4P represents all things size being equal, then fighters skill levels, quality of wins comes in to play, as well as wins in mulitple divisions vs. quality opponents.

I get what P4P is, I just think if all these guys were in Heavyweight Brock still gives them hell of a fight. and beats some of them.

But I get what yall are saying

Yeah that was to Timmy

LTFG, relax bro first off, no Page in ur top 20 even?, not even mentioned in ur HM? I mean Nate is one of my favorite fighters too, but Page has a better resume.

And Brock really? and I'd argue that the UFC LHW belt maybe the most significant belt in MMA, look at that division.

LA I do over analyze alittle lol.

WW 1. GSP
2. Fitch
3. Thiago Alves
4. Koscheck
5. Daley
6. Hardy
7. Paulo Thiago
8. Condit
9. Zaromskis
10. Hughes

LW 1. BJ
2. Aoki
3. K-Flow
4. Diego Sanchez
5. Maynard
6. Melendez
7. Sherk
8. Alvarez
9. Kawajiri
10. Edgar