Is Aoki number two?

I think I have to rank him there with his recent success, but I want to put Diego Sanchez ahead of him. I keep thinking of that Sakurai fight at WW and there's no way that Diego gets owned like that.

I did tend to figure in Diego's success at WW... But you can't do it to the degree of calling him #2 right now. I ranked him at #10 entering the division based on his WW resume. Fact is Diego has two decision wins at LW over guys that aren't even top-10. Based on that alone, he barely cracks my top-5 now. He needs to beat someone ranked in the top-5 and do so with conviction. Or just beat BJ...

Now Aoki has a great LW resume. And we all know if your name isn't BJ Penn and you end up on the ground with Aoki... You're fucked!!!

Yeah, he's #2...

Its hard to rank all the Dream LW because the majority of them haven't fought the top guys in the UFC. I personally think the UFC guys are a little underrated as far as the entire division goes. As for Aoki though he has to be top 5 for sure and as high as #2. I currently think Edgar, Diaz, Penn, & possible Maynard turn Aoki's light out in a fight just based on good enough wrestling to keep it standing and good enough standing to end the fight, but I'm probably underestimating Aoki's ability to get the fight to the ground.

I don't know, I didn't feel like JZ was in too much trouble when Aoki continuously put him on the ground. I believe Diego's BJJ would be able to neutalize Aoki's -- for goodness sakes he trains with Xande Ribeiro! Plus, I thought Diego owned Stevenson and Guida in those fights. I'm not sure how Diego didn't go out after that attack. BUt who would win I suppose is beside the point, Aoki deserves the #2 spot for now, but I'd put money on Diego beating him.

I think Tyson Griffin and Gray Maynard would both beat Aoki...just my opinion.

Farmer1906 wrote:

Its hard to rank all the Dream LW because the majority of them haven't fought the top guys in the UFC. I personally think the UFC guys are a little underrated as far as the entire division goes. As for Aoki though he has to be top 5 for sure and as high as #2. I currently think Edgar, Diaz, Penn, & possible Maynard turn Aoki's light out in a fight just based on good enough wrestling to keep it standing and good enough standing to end the fight, but I'm probably underestimating Aoki's ability to get the fight to the ground.

Not just is ability to get it to the ground Farmer, but his ability to finish once there. His style is boring at times, frustrating to watch when he butt crawls sweeping at his opponents feet. I actually hate watching 90% of every fight... But once he gets where he wants to be and starts working that BJJ magic, it's art in motion. Of the guys you listed, all but Diaz could beat him (And add Diego, Kenny and Sherk), IMO... BJ's the only one that would be favored at this point though.

I actually think Nate Diaz is a good call. Nate's stand-up would destroy Aoki's and his BJJ is probably good enough to avoid a submission.

boomer sooner wrote:

I actually think Nate Diaz is a good call. Nate's stand-up would destroy Aoki's and his BJJ is probably good enough to avoid a submission.

Anyone's stand-up "seemingly" destroys Aoki's, yet he rarely is in trouble there... And Diaz has very good BJJ, but nowhere near Aoki's league. He would eventually succumb, IMO.

boomer sooner wrote:

I actually think Nate Diaz is a good call. Nate's stand-up would destroy Aoki's and his BJJ is probably good enough to avoid a submission.

Dude's hate on Nate cause a couple guys were able to "control" Nate on the ground. Kid's way more talented then people give him credit for.

captain organic wrote:

boomer sooner wrote:

I actually think Nate Diaz is a good call. Nate's stand-up would destroy Aoki's and his BJJ is probably good enough to avoid a submission.

Dude's hate on Nate cause a couple guys were able to "control" Nate on the ground. Kid's way more talented then people give him credit for.

Not discounting his ground skills in any way (I'd give him the advantage over 90% of the top-20 LW class)... But I don't think he's in Aoki's BJJ league at this point...

There are only like 2 guys who could handle Aoki's ground game. BJ of course and my surprise pick? Clay Guida. Guida is so busy during a fight and he does have good takedowns that I think he would give Aoki fits. Hell I think he is gonna give my boy Kenflo fits until Kenny remembers the guy is THE Geico Caveman and Jedi mindtricks his ass.

Wait, are we talking Aoki with or without magic pants?

yes. His jiu jitsu is a different animal. Im not picking against him at LW again, especially outside of the ufc.

How would he do against top ufc LW's? No one can say for sure but i like how his jiu jitsu translates to mma. When you are on the ground with him you can not make any mistakes. If you place your arm on the mat, its over. If you let him break your posture down, its over. If you let him grab a leg, it's over. Etc etc.

I rank him high but Someone(cant remember who) called me crazy during a vote.

Well Vitor Ribeiro and JZ did fine against Aoki's BJJ. I think there's probably a lot of guys out there that could avoid the sub. Diego and BJ being two of them for sure.

Just watched the Hansen fight. Aoki gets a breather midway through the fight after he appears dazed. Hansen accidently kicked him in the nuts. The ref didn't notice it, but when Aoki appeared hurt he stopped the fight to let him recover. We've seen this a hundred times and the ref lets it go if he doesn't see the hit. More Japanese protection for Asian fighters.

The Ref helped Aoki some much in the fight is was ridiculous. He tells Hansen he can't punch Aoki in the side of the head, but then he calls time out when Aoki gets rocked. He even helped Aoki with a takedown.


I would like to see a fourth fight.

the ref made the right call did he not? Hansen kicked him square in the nuts and then got two free kicks to aoki's head. Didn't seem like the protection was enough if you ask me.

I do think Aoki is kind of soft though. He is as one dimensional as it gets but he happens to be a master of that one dimension. Who's next for him though? I dont know which japanese fighters are friends and such but i'd like to see him fight Kitaoka or Hirota

Yeah I'm with Oggy I thought the ref did the right thing giving Aoki time after the nutshot and subsequent kicks to the head.

As far as Aoki being number 2 in the world? I think he might be number 1, we'll probably never find out, though. Yes, BJ's standup is obviously better but time and time again Aoki proves that his lack of standup skills is a non-issue.

Aoki isn't number 1, BJ would completely neutralize his jj, and beat him down, think Mach. I actually think a number of LWs beat Aoki; Maynard, Griffin, Edgar, Diego, Nick if he could make the weight, even Sherk if he fought the way he should fight.

speculating on Aoki matches vs ufc fighters is pointless though. It's more likely that we'll see Fedor in the ufc before we ever see him there.

tolivendiewithLA wrote:

Aoki isn't number 1, BJ would completely neutralize his jj, and beat him down, think Mach. I actually think a number of LWs beat Aoki; Maynard, Griffin, Edgar, Diego, Nick if he could make the weight, even Sherk if he fought the way he should fight.

Are you basing that on resume? If so, Aoki's is better than all of the above mentioned fighters.

Honestly just off how fighters matchup, and who to I think could beat who. You can't always use resume as a indicator, like some think Brock beats Barnett despite a large discrepency in resumes. Also the weight of Aoki's resume, it's subjective, I also tend to think UFC LW's don't get as much cred as they deserve, all this is really why I'm one of the biggest proponents for a unified Org. Would love to see some of the UFC LWs matchup against LWs over in Japan.

tolivendiewithLA wrote:

Honestly just off how fighters matchup, and who to I think could beat who. You can't always use resume as a indicator, like some think Brock beats Barnett despite a large discrepency in resumes. Also the weight of Aoki's resume, it's subjective, I also tend to think UFC LW's don't get as much cred as they deserve, all this is really why I'm one of the biggest proponents for a unified Org. Would love to see some of the UFC LWs matchup against LWs over in Japan.

I'd love to see it, too. And you're right, you can't always use resume, however, when the resume's of both parties are extensive it can definitely be used as an indicator of who's the better fighter.

The weight of anything is subjective in MMA and anyone can beat anyone in the real world. Judging on Josh's recent fights I think Brock would beat his ass. He's a great fighter but Brock would outstrength him easily which most people can't do.

boomer sooner wrote:

Well Vitor Ribeiro and JZ did fine against Aoki's BJJ. I think there's probably a lot of guys out there that could avoid the sub. Diego and BJ being two of them for sure.

So wait... Spending 15 minutes focused on not getting submitted to the point you can't mount an offensive is a good way to fight? You do realize those guys both lost the fight, right? Yeah, they didn't lose due to submission... They lost due to lack of an offesnive due to fear of submission. Still a loss. Better to take a risk and mount that offensive and hope you rock him before he grabs a limb. It's the only way to effectively fight a guy like Aoki unless your content with boring a crowd to death while looking to lose a decison...