Reason Nate Marquardt got cut? (vote)

I give him props, he answered every question, blamed nobody but himself and appeared to show genuine atonement for the outcome. If Sonnen had done this after his Silva fight, I would of had a mountain of respect for him in spite of his character shortcomings.

GDPofDRC wrote:

I give him props, he answered every question, blamed nobody but himself and appeared to show genuine atonement for the outcome. If Sonnen had done this after his Silva fight, I would of had a mountain of respect for him in spite of his character shortcomings.

Yeah I agree, fair assessment.

GDPofDRC wrote:

I give him props, he answered every question, blamed nobody but himself and appeared to show genuine atonement for the outcome. If Sonnen had done this after his Silva fight, I would of had a mountain of respect for him in spite of his character shortcomings.

Yeah I agree. I'm just hoping for a Dana response to confirm this was the reason and that is the entire story. Just for 100% clarification.

Ben Askren-

@nathanmarquardt you are a cheater, not once but frequently. Stop cheating, come to bellator and I will crush you.

OU wrote:

GDPofDRC wrote:

I give him props, he answered every question, blamed nobody but himself and appeared to show genuine atonement for the outcome. If Sonnen had done this after his Silva fight, I would of had a mountain of respect for him in spite of his character shortcomings.

Yeah I agree. I'm just hoping for a Dana response to confirm this was the reason and that is the entire story. Just for 100% clarification.

You never know with that guy.

GDPofDRC wrote:

I give him props, he answered every question, blamed nobody but himself and appeared to show genuine atonement for the outcome. If Sonnen had done this after his Silva fight, I would of had a mountain of respect for him in spite of his character shortcomings.

Sonnen's issue came to light after the fight was already over and he didn't give an interview. Obviously whatever he said was good enough to get his suspension cut in half by the NSAC before they just started to jerk him around

He went on Ariel's show anyway and said it was his fault and that Kizer was a great guy and he looked forward to working with him to resolve the situation and make sure it doesn't happen again. I don't understand why people care about meaningless shit like that anyway since everyone has to say it to look genuine

bobbitt15 wrote:

GDPofDRC wrote:

I give him props, he answered every question, blamed nobody but himself and appeared to show genuine atonement for the outcome. If Sonnen had done this after his Silva fight, I would of had a mountain of respect for him in spite of his character shortcomings.

Sonnen's issue came to light after the fight was already over and he didn't give an interview. Obviously whatever he said was good enough to get his suspension cut in half by the NSAC before they just started to jerk him around

He went on Ariel's show anyway and said it was his fault and that Kizer was a great guy and he looked forward to working with him to resolve the situation and make sure it doesn't happen again. I don't understand why people care about meaningless shit like that anyway since everyone has to say it to look genuine

That is like the box score version though and would be a great story to tell someone with zero knowledge of the situation.

The "good enough to get his suspension cut in half" hearing your talking about is the one where he said he talked to Kizer about TRT and that it was okay, which didn't happen at all.

Sonnen came in MMA hour in April 7 months later, before his second hearing to make nice noise.

Chael had all kind of conflicting reports about Kiezer. The dude just lied and lied and lied some more.

Atleast he still has a job

bobbitt15 wrote:

Atleast he still has a job

lol, fuck dana white, full circle.

Its common practice since randy couture to get doctor prescribed test in a tube why the fuss ??unless he was over the arlready ridiculous normal range of 200 nanograms to 1100 nanograms per deciliter

His levels were low from past steroid use, and his body couldn't produce natural levels anymore. He couldn't receive prescribed replacements, and was therefore giving his own. If he was getting them by a doctor his levels would be monitored and therefore not over. Pair this with messing up a main event basically within 24 hours. There's a whole level off shadyness around everything as well. I mean it comes down to if you suspend a guy or cut him, when everything goes down like this a day before an event it gets harder to turn a blind eye.

LA wrote:

His levels were low from past steroid use, and his body couldn't produce natural levels anymore. He couldn't receive prescribed replacements, and was therefore giving his own. If he was getting them by a doctor his levels would be monitored and therefore not over. Pair this with messing up a main event basically within 24 hours. There's a whole level off shadyness around everything as well. I mean it comes down to if you suspend a guy or cut him, when everything goes down like this a day before an event it gets harder to turn a blind eye.

excellent summary LA, I agree completely

I kind of expect Nate to end up in SF late 2011 early 2012 though.

did anyone else think it was funny when Dana was right next to ZStephan Bonnar talking about how bad Nate fucked up, Stephan has a look on his face like, "damn I did steroids so it musta been bad" lol

Nate's doctor prescribed him off-label non-USDA approved meds for the treatment. NJ flagged him for it, they wanted Nate to do tests after fight. Go off treatment for 8 weeks and take blood tests. 8 weeks later was 3 weeks before the Story fight and his physician directed him back on the treatment with different meds at a higher frequency to compensate for the time off the treatment which proved to be the error in that the weight cut amplified the results of the treatment and it was discovered too late in that his T levels were within the normal range for the fight on fight day but not the day before the fight resulting in the suspension.

Point being, here is a guy who to the best of his knowledge played by every rule in this scenario, followed his doctors directions open with commissions and UFC and the route still failed him. No lies, no shadyness, but transparency. And the problem as I've stated before is TRT itself. Nate shouldn't of been allowed to fight because this commission, Nevada, Cali, etc., don't know how to address TRT. The medical community does not know how to address TRT as it relates to professional fighters. I don't even like Mardquart at all really, but him being fired is a huge part of what's wrong with the sport. He didn't make it to the show, just make it to the show and you can flunk any post fight test you want and lie about to anyone you want cause as long as you show, why would what happens after matter?

Why did he wait until 48hrs before the event to address the issue? Why wasn't the necessary paperwork accessible? Was he in need a TRT in the first place due to PED use? Isn't it odd he was given off-label meds? I'm a Nate fan, bu lets to realistic here.


And something wrong with the Sport? Lets me guess Monopoly garbage? Lets just let a fighter make the UFC and entire sport look bad, it's magnified by when it happened as well.


Nate will find a home in Zuffa again someday anyways, example set, get your shit together, 2012 you'll be back.

im still wondering why da fuck he was cut? danas a little drama queen...

48 hours? Are you Dana White who claims to of heard about this for the first time on Friday while the PAC publicly states they have been in communication with Nate and the UFC for over 6 weeks on this specific licensing issue and NJ's inquires?

Necessary paperwork? ? ? ?

He might need TRT from the over the counter products he bought 7 years ago or it could be derived from one of the common onsets of such an ailment: genetic, problem with testicles, pituitary gland problem etc.,. Similar to other ailments of the endocrine system there is often no definitive fact on most individuals onset, only speculation.

Doctors very often prescribe their patients off-label medications, there is nothing odd about it. NJAC is within their rights to limit medical exemptions to USDA certified medications. An oversight perhaps, but one which Nate and his camp were fully ready to remedy.

We have two recent cases to examine involving TRT.

One where a dude did not take even close to the proper avenues necessary to be medically exempt for treating his ailment, preformed with elevated T levels, lied about a myriad of things relating to the issue, blamed quite a few others on his way down, including during a State Commission hearing where he was sworn in.

The second is an individual receiving treatment for the same ailment who has been transparent and in compliance with all requests from all questioning the treatment. He also followed his doctors orders after he was flagged re-examined and again cleared for the treatment.

The difference/problem is in the business. One said nothing and competed dirty and shadily, the other did what he was supposed to do and was not cleared medically.

The result: One has their boss desiring to champion him on national TV cable shows and lambasting the commission for for once upholding, even in a weak manner, the policies they are supposed to do. The other is fired and disgusting and will never work for Zuffa again.

GET FUCKING REAL

LOL


Wanted to get that out before posting.

GDPofDRC wrote:

48 hours? Are you Dana White who claims to of heard about this for the first time on Friday while the PAC publicly states they have been in communication with Nate and the UFC for over 6 weeks on this specific licensing issue and NJ's inquires?

Necessary paperwork? ? ? ?

He might need TRT from the over the counter products he bought 7 years ago or it could be derived from one of the common onsets of such an ailment: genetic, problem with testicles, pituitary gland problem etc.,. Similar to other ailments of the endocrine system there is often no definitive fact on most individuals onset, only speculation.

Doctors very often prescribe their patients off-label medications, there is nothing odd about it. NJAC is within their rights to limit medical exemptions to USDA certified medications. An oversight perhaps, but one which Nate and his camp were fully ready to remedy.

We have two recent cases to examine involving TRT.

One where a dude did not take even close to the proper avenues necessary to be medically exempt for treating his ailment, preformed with elevated T levels, lied about a myriad of things relating to the issue, blamed quite a few others on his way down, including during a State Commission hearing where he was sworn in.

The second is an individual receiving treatment for the same ailment who has been transparent and in compliance with all requests from all questioning the treatment. He also followed his doctors orders after he was flagged re-examined and again cleared for the treatment.

The difference/problem is in the business. One said nothing and competed dirty and shadily, the other did what he was supposed to do and was not cleared medically.

The result: One has their boss desiring to champion him on national TV cable shows and lambasting the commission for for once upholding, even in a weak manner, the policies they are supposed to do. The other is fired and disgusting and will never work for Zuffa again.

GET FUCKING REAL

Am I Dana White? Well no, but are you anything more then another fan with zero insider knowledge? Yes. How do we know what Dana did or did not know? It was on Nate to handle the issue, but there it was unresolved with the event in 2 days. They were seeking information which Nate was supposed to provide...You're also buying into what he's saying like its complete truth, it's impossible to say.

Paperwork? I may have confused the New Jersey situation with his one, but weren't they still seeking clarification on incomplete paperwork? I think they were.

In terms of why he needed TRT, you're speculating as much as anyone else. Could it be for naturally decreasing levels? Sure, but it would seem like things wouldn't be as clouded as they are now if they were. It could just as easily be for replacement of depleted levels due to steroid use. It would lead to questions about off-label meds being used, and I've only read Nate saying that is common practice.


On comparing Nate vs Sonnen, sure there is something to be said about how both cases were handled. That could also lead to maybe there is more to this when some are letting on. I mean were talking 2 days before an event, and all this goes down, it doesn't show well for the Organization and sport.

Like I said what's the proper reaction to this? The guy is either getting suspended or fired, with all that went down, in this case in maybe be losing your job, compare this to other sports, it would be a big deal.

BE FUCKING REALISTIC

Pretty nice article by Ben Fowlkes that highlights my main beefs. The treatment is not governed well by commissions and administered well by the medical community for fighters. And the UFC wants to use you for $ and doesn't give a shit what anyone does so long as you're there to be exploited.

http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/06/28/nate-marquardt-incident-highlights-need-for-comprehensive-hrt-po/

June 28 2011 Last updated at 06:00 PM ET
Nate Marquardt Incident Highlights Need for Comprehensive HRT Policy in MMA
By Ben Fowlkes
MMA Writer

If you have to do a live interview where you answer questions about the testosterone injections that cost you your job -- and, ideally, you'd probably rather avoid that situation altogether if possible -- the way Nate Marquardt did it is probably the best way.

In his interview with Ariel Helwani on Tuesday's edition of The MMA Hour, Marquardt was open and direct about his hormone replacement therapy (HRT, if you're down with the lingo). He explained what he did, when he did it, and why. He appeared emotional, vulnerable, and -- as far as we could tell -- honest.

Even the people who wanted to string him up the moment they heard UFC president Dana White say he was "disgusted" with Marquardt must have at least considered putting down the torches and pitchforks when they heard his side of it.

But even with all the questions Marquardt answered in the hour-long interview, the one that still bugs me is the one we may never be able to pin down: does any of this make Marquardt a cheater, or does it simply make him unlucky?

At least in the eyes of the Pennsylvania State Athletic Commission, receiving testosterone injections is not, in and of itself, cheating. If you can prove (to the satisfaction of the commission) that you need it, and if you can make sure your hormone levels fall within a pre-determined range by the day before the fight, it's really no problem at all.

In fact, if Marquardt had managed to hit that range -- and by all accounts, he just missed it -- the fight would have gone on, he'd still have a job, and none of us would have ever known that he was getting a little hormonal help on the side.

If that's the case, then the difference between illegally using performance-enhancing drugs and competing entirely on the up-and-up is a matter of degrees. It's a difference of a few nanograms per deciliter. It's less about what you're doing, and more about how much of it you're doing.

Marquardt knew those were the rules when he decided to play this particular game, and now he's suffering the consequences of failing to abide by them. But maybe what we should really be asking is if these rules are all that fair to begin with.

There's a reason you can't compete with too much testosterone in your system. It's a performance-enhancing drug. It's one that the body produces naturally, but it's also a powerful substance than can change your whole personality in the right (or, depending on the personality you started with, wrong) doses.

In fact, that's one of the reasons Marquardt said he needed it. He was tired and grumpy all the time, to the point where his wife didn't want to be around him, he said. So he went to the doctor, got a prescription for testosterone, and presto chango, he's a changed man. No more fatigue. No more irritability. Just full speed ahead.

That, by definition, makes it a performance-enhancer. But it doesn't make it cheating, apparently. Not unless you do just a tad too much of it, and then it's scorched earth for you, my friend. Then you're pulled from the main event, fired from your job, and verbally blasted on national TV by your boss, who will claim to be "disgusted" by you for engaging in a practice that he was totally fine with just a few months ago, and would have been totally fine with again if only your hormone levels had dropped just a wee bit faster.

Am I the only who feels like this makes absolutely no sense?

The problem with hormone replacement therapy for pro fighters is that athletic commissions haven't really made up their minds about it yet. That much was clear when Chael Sonnen went before the California State Athletic Commission to make his case for an after-the-fact therapeutic-use exemption for testosterone.

The commission agreed that firmer, more coherent policies on HRT were absolutely necessary, then it took no clear action to make any of that happen. Instead, it decided that Sonnen had failed to give proper notice to the right people at the right times. It nailed him on a paperwork issue, more or less. As for whether he should have been mainlining testosterone to begin with? That one they weren't about to touch.

The fact that Sonnen was still being offered an Ultimate Fighter coaching job after that incident while Marquardt and his camp got to find out via Twitter that he'd been fired from the UFC altogether, that tells us where the UFC's concern really lies in this discussion.

If you get in trouble after an event -- that is, after the UFC has already made its money off you -- then your hormones are your problem. The fines, the suspensions, that's between you and the athletic commission once the fight's over.

But if those same exact hormones get you pulled from a main event the day before it's supposed to go down -- that is, after the UFC has done the work of promoting the fight but before it has reaped the lion's share of the profits -- then brother, look out. Then it won't matter that you told the UFC about it months beforehand, or that you tried to go about it in the most transparent possible way.

If that's how the UFC wants to play it, that's the UFC's choice. Whenever the issue of drug testing comes up, it can -- and usually will -- step back and let the commissions take the flack. It will also make its hiring and firing decisions based on financial considerations first, and everything else a distant second.

But while the UFC's main concern is profit, the commissions are supposed to be the ones ensuring fairness. Right now the commissions seem to think that letting one fighter artificially raise his natural testosterone levels is fair -- as long as he gets a doctor's note first, and as long as he keeps those levels below at a certain point.

Whether that's a version of fair play we agree with, or one we truly want to hold our athletes to, that's something this sport has yet to decide.

Quote :

Am I Dana White? Well no, but are you anything more then another fan with zero insider knowledge? Yes. How do we know what Dana did or did not know? It was on Nate to handle the issue, but there it was unresolved with the event in 2 days. They were seeking information which Nate was supposed to provide...You're also buying into what he's saying like its complete truth, it's impossible to say.

Paperwork? I may have confused the New Jersey situation with his one, but weren't they still seeking clarification on incomplete paperwork? I think they were.

In terms of why he needed TRT, you're speculating as much as anyone else. Could it be for naturally decreasing levels? Sure, but it would seem like things wouldn't be as clouded as they are now if they were. It could just as easily be for replacement of depleted levels due to steroid use. It would lead to questions about off-label meds being used, and I've only read Nate saying that is common practice.


On comparing Nate vs Sonnen, sure there is something to be said about how both cases were handled. That could also lead to maybe there is more to this when some are letting on. I mean were talking 2 days before an event, and all this goes down, it doesn't show well for the Organization and sport.

Like I said what's the proper reaction to this? The guy is either getting suspended or fired, with all that went down, in this case in maybe be losing your job, compare this to other sports, it would be a big deal.

BE FUCKING REALISTIC

Doesn't sound like you're up to speed at all with this story.

And are you're in the med field right. Nate Mardquart is the only guy you ave ever heard claim off-label meds are common? scary

Glad to know how you think you feel though.

It'll be interesting when people actually find out the truth on the whole situation.

GDPofDRC wrote:

Quote :

Am I Dana White? Well no, but are you anything more then another fan with zero insider knowledge? Yes. How do we know what Dana did or did not know? It was on Nate to handle the issue, but there it was unresolved with the event in 2 days. They were seeking information which Nate was supposed to provide...You're also buying into what he's saying like its complete truth, it's impossible to say.

Paperwork? I may have confused the New Jersey situation with his one, but weren't they still seeking clarification on incomplete paperwork? I think they were.

In terms of why he needed TRT, you're speculating as much as anyone else. Could it be for naturally decreasing levels? Sure, but it would seem like things wouldn't be as clouded as they are now if they were. It could just as easily be for replacement of depleted levels due to steroid use. It would lead to questions about off-label meds being used, and I've only read Nate saying that is common practice.


On comparing Nate vs Sonnen, sure there is something to be said about how both cases were handled. That could also lead to maybe there is more to this when some are letting on. I mean were talking 2 days before an event, and all this goes down, it doesn't show well for the Organization and sport.

Like I said what's the proper reaction to this? The guy is either getting suspended or fired, with all that went down, in this case in maybe be losing your job, compare this to other sports, it would be a big deal.

BE FUCKING REALISTIC

Doesn't sound like you're up to speed at all with this story.

And are you're in the med field right. Nate Mardquart is the only guy you ave ever heard claim off-label meds are common? scary

Glad to know how you think you feel though.

Sounds like you are taking Nate's word as ultimate truth in this story, don't you think it's better to wait? I've outlined reasonable questions in past posts, I know the situation.

And reading is important kid, "I've only read Nate saying that is common practice", as in...how it's relates to thsi whole story LOL, jesus.....