I hate Clay Guida for this fight but ;

He has really upgraded his wrestling. Pettis shrugged off some good pedigreed wrestlers in the WEC and Clay got him down almost at will. Shocking

<--------------------was right about Pettis.

Guida has always had very strong wrestling/smothering. When he gets in trouble and loses, it's when he plays the stand up game too long like against Kenny and Diego.

Pettis is an amazing fighter, but he was not prepared for the Pressure Guida was going to put on him, it is a shame cause he is so young and on paper he wins that fight, I didn't mind the caveman tonight, he is hungry I will give him that.

I can't believe he was that unprepared for Clays wrestling though... either that or Guida really stepped up his game, i was shocked he took him down like he did

GUida's nonstop pressure with his takedowns is impressive. It got the best of Pettis, but Guida did absolutely nothing when it going down. He got to half guard twice and even then it didn't last long. Pettis sub attempts(didnt get too too close) off his back were almost as impressive as Guida's top control. On the feet it was very clear Pettis was better. His kicks are about as good as they come.

Guida did not show anything new in this fight. I don't know why some are acting surprised that Guida was able to do what he did in the fight. It was actually typical. He pretty much won it by being Clay Guida of always..relentlessness, well set up takedowns and some stalling. This was pretty much another version of Clay Guida vs. Nate Diaz...just more decisive though i never knew why the judges had Guida-Diaz so close.

Clay looked awesome tonight by beating a guy most thought would kick his ass.

Was gonna make a thread going off on this guy

I had a whole bunch of thoughts in my mind after the fight but I've sadly drank most away, I'll do my best though.

LA wrote:

Was gonna make a thread going off on this guy

I had a whole bunch of thoughts in my mind after the fight but I've sadly drank most away, I'll do my best though.

Ive drank most of mine away also.

Guida is literally my least favorite fighter to watch in MMA, and his style of fighting is by far the worst in the sport. His whole game is such a facade, activity without actual activity....Now sure Pettis should have been able to stuff the shot, and every now and again he'll finish a guy by sub (Mostly lower level guys), but he doesn't really fight in the true sense. Hug, LnP, act crazy like you're doing something, shoulders, maybe 2-3 good shots a fight on average, most air shots, one or two subs attempts per 15 minutes of LnP, rinse and repeat......

Pettis completely shut Shane Roller who was an All American down. Clay was able to counter Pettis strikes very good tonight. His striking was used to set up the takedown. While he landed a single real blow the entire fight, and did no damage and never intended to, he has improved a lot within his game plan. Pettis will still end being a better fighter.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Pettis completely shut Shane Roller who was an All American down. Clay was able to counter Pettis strikes very good tonight. His striking was used to set up the takedown. While he landed a single real blow the entire fight, and did no damage and never intended to, he has improved a lot within his game plan. Pettis will still end being a better fighter.

Agree, much more talented, did I see a jumping spinning back kick? God I was wishing...


Anyways, Greg Fucking Jackson, Gameplans...........

I just read someone say Guida is a better MMA wrestler then Maynard on BE, I just officially gained even more respect for you guys...

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Pettis completely shut Shane Roller who was an All American down. Clay was able to counter Pettis strikes very good tonight. His striking was used to set up the takedown. While he landed a single real blow the entire fight, and did no damage and never intended to, he has improved a lot within his game plan. Pettis will still end being a better fighter.

But Roller is kind of a T-Rex. He's slow, predictable and does not set up his shots well...he's one of those guys where pure wrestling credentials don't tell the whole story for him. Pettis is not the first one to be able to shrug off Shane Roller..Roller's last fight against Tavares, he got shrugged off a bit as well mainly because he was too slow to set up a good shot for a takedown, but won it with a haymaker. Guida is good enough in the stand up and has well set up and explosive takedowns. Plus he's so active. He was able to keep Pettis off balance because Pettis had to respect his stand up and be wary of the takedown. Different animal from Bendo and Roller.

Personally, I didnt find out anything new about Clay Guida last night, we've seen it before. Boring, smotherer, but good enough in all facets to challenge anybody...we found out something about Pettis and what we learned at the very least that all that nonsense of Pettis getting an immediate title shot was more than a bit premature. He may very well go on to actually earn one, but i still think there was some Hazleffect there.. He had some cool kicks in last nights fight too.

Dustin was a skinny unathletic BJJ guy with a sub or two. Pettis has a guard as dangerous as Haz and standup to match. When he works on his takedown D he'll be much better.


Honestly, Gray and Frankie don't run that game plan nor do they train the way Clay trains, so Showtime would have a possibly better chance against them than Clay due to the matchups.

Quote :

I just read someone say Guida is a better MMA wrestler then Maynard on BE, I just officially gained even more respect for you guys...

Oh man. My post on BE ;

Quote :

Right now Guida is possibly a better pure MMA wrestler than Maynard and may be the best in the UFC
This may be a bit reactionary to tonight’s fight, and people will knee jerk wha wha whaaat?, as would I a few short hours ago, but hold on for a second and hear me out. I say this because Clay doesn’t spend all his waking hours learning boxing footwork like Maynard does. It showed in the second Edgar fight when Maynard and Edgar wrestled fairly equally where in the first fight Maynard easily won the wrestling. Guida on the other hand makes wrestling his bread and butter and molds everything around it. It really showed tonight with Pettis. Pettis has athletic hips and good takedown defense demonstrated in many fights but every time he attempted a strike, BOOM, Clay had him down. You can tell that is what Clay trains more than anything else.

Other top wrestlers in the UFC work on other aspects of their game much more. But like Clay said before the bout he knows his strengths and will play into them.

I stand by this. Maynard's wrestling has not been as dominant lately and it's because he has turned into one of the best boxers at LW. You don't add a skill set to that degree without sacrificing something somewhere. Guida on the other hand has upgraded his takedowns and control in a big way and trains his movement and footwork to set up his takedowns. It is all based around takedowns. Maynard is not. He is a boxer with a wrestling pedigree. We've seen before where guys lose some of their pedigreed dominance by taking for granted their root skills at this level.

Like I said earlier this week, I was really rooting for Pettis but I was feeling Guida winning this fight all the way. This new style that he has employed against Gomi and Pettis sucks ass to watch but its really effective. He doesn't just bull rush forward, hops around like a rabbit and then just pounces on the first takedown opening presented even if it takes a couple minutes into the round. Great timing on them. He doesn't really have much of a top game but hell who needs it with the way the fights are currently judged. Pettis will be back, his striking is great and its almost impossible to do anything with him on his back. Fights like last night are one of the few ways he can be beaten. Keep working on the wrestling kid

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Dustin was a skinny unathletic BJJ guy with a sub or two. Pettis has a guard as dangerous as Haz and standup to match. When he works on his takedown D he'll be much better.


Honestly, Gray and Frankie don't run that game plan nor do they train the way Clay trains, so Showtime would have a possibly better chance against them than Clay due to the matchups.

I'm not comparing the quality of fighters, i'm comparing the reaction to the fighters based on a highlight.

Dustin is a skinny, unathletic BJJ guy but nobody was calling him that 2 years ago. He was McLovin who was a fixture in the WW division mainly because he had a couple highlight reel subs under his belt.

Pettis beat Ben Henderson in a very competitive fight...and people are kidding themselves if they didnt let the orgasm from the kick cloud their judgement on if this guy deserved a title shot..even if he was "ready"(which Guida proved he wasnt) he didnt deserve one.

I don't think Guida will ever be a UFC champion and i don't think he's all that much better than he ever was. Just nobody had his recent opponents on the same pedestal as Anthony. So when he won his recent fights people didnt have to pump up Clay Guida as this new super shredder version of Clay Guida when he's really business as usual Clay Guida simply so they can avoid admitting that they overreacted to an overhyped fighter who never fought anybody on Guida's level.

KingsOwn19 wrote:

Guida did not show anything new in this fight. I don't know why some are acting surprised that Guida was able to do what he did in the fight. It was actually typical. He pretty much won it by being Clay Guida of always..relentlessness, well set up takedowns and some stalling. This was pretty much another version of Clay Guida vs. Nate Diaz...just more decisive though i never knew why the judges had Guida-Diaz so close.

I figured Diaz Guida was a fight that u would have in your "Judges give WAY too much credit to top control fighters" argument.

And im sort of with Wolf on Guida. Not that he is better then Maynard, but the dude has wrestled up enough guys to at least not make that statement outrageous. And It's not as though Maynard has some vicious GnP either. Both guys are at their best, grind out, fairly boring, decision fighters.

Maynard is an exciting boxer who wrestles when he has to. Guida is just a wrestler. Both have good movement but Maynard likes to mix it up and is extremely well rounded. Guida....not as rounded.

Pettis wasn't really over hyped. Guida is just that much better at employing his game plan. Guida would keep Florian's shoulders on the mat for three rounds if they were to ever rematch - trust.

Maynard is an exciting boxer?

captain organic wrote:

KingsOwn19 wrote:

Guida did not show anything new in this fight. I don't know why some are acting surprised that Guida was able to do what he did in the fight. It was actually typical. He pretty much won it by being Clay Guida of always..relentlessness, well set up takedowns and some stalling. This was pretty much another version of Clay Guida vs. Nate Diaz...just more decisive though i never knew why the judges had Guida-Diaz so close.

I figured Diaz Guida was a fight that u would have in your "Judges give WAY too much credit to top control fighters" argument.

No. That is just when somebody is sitting in the guard fighting off submissions yet getting points for being on the top, even though they are on the defensive. You might be right that was prevelent in the Guida-Diaz fight but not so much to my recollection. I only saw that fight when it happened, a while ago.

I've only brought that up once when people though Jared Hess was beating Alexander Shlemenko even though he was inside Shlemenko's guard fighting off sub after sub without doing any offense of his own. Most judges interpret that as the guy in the guard winning even though in BJJ, a martial art the guard is an advantage position...and if all the guy inside the guard is doing is defending himself..he's not winning. Capt, you been so testy these days..we used to agree on a lot.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Maynard is an exciting boxer who wrestles when he has to. Guida is just a wrestler. Both have good movement but Maynard likes to mix it up and is extremely well rounded. Guida....not as rounded.

Pettis wasn't really over hyped. Guida is just that much better at employing his game plan. Guida would keep Florian's shoulders on the mat for three rounds if they were to ever rematch - trust.

I think Guida would have been able to keep Florian's shoulders on the mat back then to...he just didnt go for it. He'd probably still lose to Diego Sanchez.

You watch this motherfucker fight? He wrestles when he needs to but he has stood with dudes and won the boxing numerous times. Diaz. Edgar. The evolution of Gray Maynard has been obvious for years. I never once understood the heat he got. Like in the Clementi fight. He was unable to do any damage or advance position but that was just as much Rich's defense as it was Maynard's offense. Somewhat like the position Clay found himself in last night. While I think Clay wouldn't attempt a finishing or at least damage oriented technique or strike at the expense of position, with everything Pettis was doing made it much harder to unload with offense.

I've watched him plenty. and exciting boxer is not what comes to mind.