It’s not often that you get to interview
a legend in this sport. A pioneer, if you will. But that’s just what I
had the chance to do when I spent some time at
Urban Jungle Self Defense back in August of this year. Royce Gracie was
in town doing a seminar and he was kind enough to set aside some time to talk with me.
TCD: How often do you make it out to Houston?
Royce: About twice a year.
TCD: What is your take on the sport of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and it’s evolution?
Royce: Gracie Jiu-Jitsu
is a self defense style. It’s not a point system. The Brazilian Jiu
Jitsu that people are practicing has become a points system and that’s
ruining the martial art, like it ruined most other martial arts.
Most martial arts out there, if not all
of them, are built to fight and for self defense. They are not built to
score points. The point system competition is ruining martial arts in
general.
TCD: There is a lot of talk about trying to get jiu jitsu into the olympics. What are your thoughts on that?
Royce: I don’t agree
with that. I don’t agree with having a points system. On the streets
thee is no points system. I understand it’s fun but look at Tae Kwon Do
today. What are they teaching? They are teaching you how to tag the
opponent. If you hit through his head like it used to be before, they
say it’s excessive force and that it’s too violent. You have to tag your
opponent to score the points. So what are they teaching you? How not to
hit. It’s weakening the style.
Most styles that go through points they
lose their home and where they come from. They are not built for that,
they are built for the streets and for self defense.
TCD: Has there been
anything In the evolution of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and Brazalian Jiu-Jitsu
that you’ve liked? Has there been anything that your proud to see?
Royce: Evolution? What kind of evolution are you talking about?
TCD: In general, as the sport has grown and changed over the years.
Royce: There is strategy.
What is the evolution of boxing? Better
shoes? Better helmets? Better gloves? It has nothing to do with
evolution. It’s not evolution of the sport of boxing, it’s in the
materials that you use in boxing. The tape, what kind of gloves, what
kind of shoes, helmet, training. But the boxing itself is still the
same. The 1,2 combination is still the same. A hook is still a hook and a
jab is still a jab.
The evolution is in the training facilities, the equipment, what you eat to become a better fighter; but a jab is still a jab.
Same thing with Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. People
talk about evolution. OK, maybe there is one or two new moves but a
choke 50 years ago is still the same choke today. The arm lock 50 years
ago is still the same arm lock today. There are better gi’s and better
mats and more training today, but it’s not evolution of the system; it’s
evolution of everything around the system.
TCD: What about the new styles (guards, etc.) that have developed over the years?
Royce: What sport does Mike Tyson practice? Boxing? Muhammad Ali? Boxing.
Do they both have the same styles? No.
Ali keeps you away with his long arms and Tyson comes in tight, bobbing and weaving; but they both practice boxing.
You can’t teach a style to a person. You can teach the art of boxing, but I can’t teach you Muhammad Ali.
I’ll teach you Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, but I
can’t teach you a style. I can’t teach you to move like me, you’re not
me. You have to move your own way. Everybody has their own personalized
style, but everybody learned Gracie Jiu Jitsu.
It’s like saying, “I’m going to go drink a Starbucks.”
No, you’re not going to go drink a Starbuck, you’re going to go drink a coffee. You don’t go make a Xerox, you make a copy.
TCD: What about the evolution of MMA?
Royce: What is MMA?
TCD: The sport of MMA. For example, when you fought there was no time limit. That has evolved into…
Royce: People say they want to practice MMA. “I want to learn MMA”.
You don’t learn MMA. You learn a style.
You learn jiu jitsu, you learn wrestling, you learn judo, you learn
kickboxing. MMA is a jack of all trades, master of none.
TCD: But the sport itself has changed dramatically from when you pioneered it back at UFC 1.
Royce: Not exactly.
TCD: Well, you look at fights now, a title fight is 5 5-minute rounds.
Royce: But still…Loyota Machida, what style does he come from?
TCD: Karate.
Royce: Randy Couture?
TCD: Wrestling.
Royce: Nogueira
TCD: BJJ
Royce: How come
Nogueira knocks people out with is boxing? He compliments his jiu jutsu
with boxing, like Randy Couture. Loyota Machida comes from karat but
then he trains jiujitsu on the side to compliment. In the beginning,
people used to train one style only, but that was the quest that my
family had. What style was the best. Once we proved through the years
that Gracie Jiu Jitsu was the best style, the stand up guys had to learn
grappling now. They have to learn some kind of grappling style like
Gracie Jiu Jitsu.
And the jiu jitsu guys, of course are not going to stay behind, they are going to learn how to punch.
You learn a style.
TCD: The UFC signed a deal with Fox. Is that good for the sport?
Royce: Of course.
TCD: Is the commercialization of MMA a good thing for the sport?
Royce: They still put
two guys in there to fight, in a safe way. The rules are there to
prevent the fighters from getting hurt. So in a safe way it’s a clean
fight. It’s good for us because we are getting bigger sponsors. That
means us fighters are going to get paid more. Instead of making it
illegal and us getting paid $50,000 to fight 3 fights in one night, we
get a million dollars to fight.
TCD: Speaking of fighting, there was a rumor that you were going to fight at UFC Rio.
Royce: No. You guys created that rumor.
TCD: The media started that?
Royce: Yes. They saw me at the press conference and they assumed that I was going to fight.
TCD: I was watching
the Fight for BOPE and heard you doing the commentary for them. You’ve
done commentary for Pride and Bodog in the past as well. Is that
something we’re going to see more of from you?
Royce: Man, that’s hard. I prefer fighting rather than doing commentaries man.
[laughter]
TCD: Is it because you don’t like it?
Royce: No, it’s just hard! You have to have talent!
TCD: What would you say the biggest win was in your MMA career?
Royce: Maybe the first
UFC because it was raw, no gloves, no rules, no time limit, no weight
division, 3 fights in one night. Naah. Maybe UFC 2. No time limit again,
no rules again, no gloves, no weight division, but was 4 fights in one
night. Naah maybe Kimo at UFC 3; 250lbs of pure power.
TCD: You don’t want to pick one is what you’re telling me.
Royce: Hold on, hold
on. Maybe UFC 4. Dan Severn. 260+ pounds of muscle. Whatch his fights
and see what he did to people before me. He destroyed them, picking them
up and throwing them on their heads. Naaaah. Maybe an hour and 45
minutes with Sakuraba; 6 rounds of 15 minutes. Naaah. Hold on, let me
think about it. Maybe Akebono. 6’8″ 480 pounds.
I think my name is in the history books with bold gold letters.
TCD: So what you’re saying is you don’t have one, is that it?
[laughter]
Royce: It’s hard to pick one. They are all memorable.
TCD: It does seem as if every new one topped the previous one. In your opinion, who is the best fighter in the world right now?
Royce: Oh man, there
are so many guys. I like the guys that know how to use strategy. Guys
like Anderson Silva. He makes it look easy. St. Pierre, BJ Penn, they
make it look easy, but look at their opponents when they are fighting
somebody else. Those guys are very tough man. They have the ability to
deliver their strategy and make it look easy and make their opponent
look like nothing.
So pretty much the guys on top. BJ Penn, Nick and Nate Diaz, Gilbert Melendez. There are so many on top.
They are on top because they know how to use strategy.
TCD: Do you think that is a big key to being successful in the sport?
Royce: It’s not just
about being tough and it’s not just about being talented. You have to
have discipline to get up and go do it, and chase it and deliver. They
are able to deliver their strategy. It’s not just about being tough,
they feel punches like everybody else, but they are able to deliver the
strategy that they and their team set up.
TCD: Fair enough. Who do you think is the best at developing that strategy?
Royce: It’s hard to
pick one. There is a big difference between the guys that are tough guys
that come in and duke it out and fight and get hit and get bloody and
get hit and hit back and don’t go away from the guys that use strategy.
The guys that know how to take their opponent and make them look like
nothing. That’s strategy, that’s an ability.
Most people say “I’m going to throw a
1,2 combination, I’m going to take him down, mount him, throw a couple
of elbows, he’s going to turn around and I’m going to choke him.”
That’s not a strategy, that’s a wish. “I wish the fight goes that way.”
Strategy is being able to figure out what your opponent is going to do and get him out of his game.
TCD: Is that what you did in your career?
Royce: Watch my fights. I don’t like to get hit man; very rarely I got hit.
Look at Dan Severn for instance. That’s a
perfect example right there. He beats everybody up, he just went
throughout them like nothing. Then he got to me and couldn’t do nothing
to me.
Like Akebono. Before the fight everybody
was saying, “Oh man you’re crazy! You’re going to fight a guy who is
6’8″ and 490 pounds. How are you going to take him down? How are you
going to beat him?
After I beat him everybody was like, “Oh come on, that was easy! He’s too fat, he’s too big.”
Well, walk up to a 6’8″ 490 pound man and slap him in the face. You’ll see how fat he is.
“Oh, he’s slow.”
Yeah, you’ll see how slow he is after you slap him in the face.
[laughs]
Just
because I made it look easy, doesn’t mean it is easy. It’s the same
thing with guys that are fighting right now. Just because BJ Penn makes
it look easy, that doesn’t mean it’s easy man. Anderson Silva, Nick and
Nate Diaz, Gilbert Melendez. Just because they make it look easy,
doesn’t mean it’s easy.
TCD: My last question. What piece of advise would you give to somebody who is getting started in the sport?
Royce:Train. Don’t rely on talent or being tough. Train.
TCD: And have a strategy?
Royce: And strategy. Your team has to come up with one.
TCD: Royce, thank you
for your time, I really appreciate it. It’s great to have you here in
Houston and we hope to see you back soon.
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