yall musta forgot

http://www.ninjasplace.com/t10988-gsp-and-the-karate-spirit


This should help explain it further to anyone who is still trying to understand why GSP is the best striker in the division.

"How can I forget what I never knew?", bigbeastcardinal12, Febuary 2009.

So GSP is the best striker at 170 because of the Karate Spirit? Is that really the argument?

Quote :

GSP's stance is a modified karate stance that is specifically designed for MMA. It's better than Lyoto's in fact as it is less susceptible to leg kicks. There is a lot of efficiency of motion. His feints for takedowns and for a strike are almost the same. Because of speed and this efficiency, it's almost impossible to tell what technique GSP is attempting until the full extension of the attack. Because he has a point fighting based timing system, his only rivals in gangster ass geijitsu are Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida. However, the fact he has such a dominant offensive and defensive wrestling game, it gives a lot of weight to the argument GSP is better able to neutralize and take the heart of a fighter simply through deception and timing than either Machida or Silva.

Quote :

But beyond that, technique-wise, Karate colors everything in GSP's striking game. As a practitioner of a more serious, full contact style of karate from an early age his entire mentality towards fighting has been shaped because of it, for better or worse. One thing that is painfully obvious watching GSP fight is he is on the most basal levels programmed with zero ability to wad in aggressively with power punches. His striking philosophy is the absolute antithesis of Wanderlei Silva. Much like Lyoto Machida, GSP spent his formative years bloodying noses in full contact point fighting tournaments where one punch, one blow often meant the match. He's trained his entire life watching and reading an opponents impending attack and avoiding, and this is precisely why he is so elusive. Why he can see what his opponent is throwing before his opponent knows what he's throwing himself. The Machida factor.

Yea capt, clearly the argument is the title of my article and not the content. That is obviously what I meant when I posted this.

Im still confused.

R U saying Karate based strikers are, because they came from a point scoring system, more dangerous in MMA then a boxing or a Muay Thai based fighter?

Im also not agreeing with the opinion of "It's better then Lyoto's".

and Im not even sure what this statement is saying "Because he has a point fighting based timing system, his only rivals in gangster ass geijitsu are Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida"


ATMO, GSP is so effective because he has excellent wrestling, which has become his MMA base, and above average standup, which allows him to pick apart primarily ground fighters ala Shields, Fitch, Kos etc.

His karate stance is better. Geijitsu is a Machida joke than most members here would/should get.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

His karate stance is better. Geijitsu is a Machida joke than most members here would/should get.

blah, pure striking Machida is much better then GSP.

and Silva is in another stratosphere.

Insinuating that GSP's striking is on par with Silva is what got me confused. Cause it's a way out there opinion.

Finish ability - no. Ability to read, deceive and defend? Yes. Stats back it up. GSP is one of the few who can be grouped with Machida and Silva.


Somebody caught up in da finishes.

And GSP's stance is better. Less vulnerable to leg kicks, assists in his brilliant best-all-time ability to fake fools out.

GSP is at considered amongst the best in the sport because of his wrestling. That is the strength in his game. Yes he is super well rounded, his striking is above average, but it is not what has carried him to the top of the p4p charts.

Machida and Silva are strikers. Almost pure strikers. There success is based predominantly on their striking.

Silva is on a complete other level in the striking dept. Multiple levels higher. And yes his ability to KO dudes on the regular is part of that.

Quote :

Machida and Silva are strikers. Almost pure strikers. There success is based predominantly on their striking.

Anderson winning two(2) title fights he was losing off his back and Machida's BJJ and wrestling games and how many times he has used them to win stand up fights beg to differ. It's like saying Liddell won primarily because of his striking. Doesn't tell the whole story. But this is a digression.

You seem uncharacteristically confused to what I am saying here capt. Skillwise, GSP is one of the few MMA fighters who do what they do standing in a way that can be compared. I over estimate the importance of deception and timing in the eyes of the forum I see. A skill I believe at the core of all three fighters success(for that matter, so do they) in a similar way.

Again, GSP's wrestling is so good partly because it is fully integrated into his stand up. Because he hits the takedown at the perfect moment. Because it is masked. His freak ability to power guys down is a further testament to his gifts and athleticism but it is all an interconnected chain. GSP isn't where he is today without his stand up. Period. Everything falls underneath that.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Quote :

Machida and Silva are strikers. Almost pure strikers. There success is based predominantly on their striking.

Anderson winning two(2) title fights he was losing off his back and Machida's BJJ and wrestling games and how many times he has used them to win stand up fights beg to differ. It's like saying Liddell won primarily because of his striking. Doesn't tell the whole story. But this is a digression.

You seem uncharacteristically confused to what I am saying here capt. Skillwise, GSP is one of the few MMA fighters who do what they do standing in a way that can be compared. I over estimate the importance of deception and timing in the eyes of the forum I see. A skill I believe at the core of all three fighters success(for that matter, so do they) in a similar way.

Again, GSP's wrestling is so good partly because it is fully integrated into his stand up. Because he hits the takedown at the perfect moment. Because it is masked. His freak ability to power guys down is a further testament to his gifts and athleticism but it is all an interconnected chain. GSP isn't where he is today without his stand up. Period. Everything falls underneath that.

you rang?

you remember the left hook that James Toney got?
A sucker move I stole from a game-cock

Birdofthad wrote:

you remember the left hook that James Toney got?
A sucker move I stole from a game-cock

and what a fight that was for Roy

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Quote :

Machida and Silva are strikers. Almost pure strikers. There success is based predominantly on their striking.

Anderson winning two(2) title fights he was losing off his back and Machida's BJJ and wrestling games and how many times he has used them to win stand up fights beg to differ. It's like saying Liddell won primarily because of his striking. Doesn't tell the whole story. But this is a digression.

You seem uncharacteristically confused to what I am saying here capt. Skillwise, GSP is one of the few MMA fighters who do what they do standing in a way that can be compared. I over estimate the importance of deception and timing in the eyes of the forum I see. A skill I believe at the core of all three fighters success(for that matter, so do they) in a similar way.

Again, GSP's wrestling is so good partly because it is fully integrated into his stand up. Because he hits the takedown at the perfect moment. Because it is masked. His freak ability to power guys down is a further testament to his gifts and athleticism but it is all an interconnected chain. GSP isn't where he is today without his stand up. Period. Everything falls underneath that.

so 2 Silva subs weighs comparably to his 8 UFC KO's? And the 8 KO's doesn't even include the Hendo fight which was a sub set up fully by his striking.

And notice the word predominantly. Also notice Ive said GSP is super well rounded with above average striking.

I've been very level headed in this debate, don't try to link me to statements like "GSP sucks".

GSP has timing, speed and deception unlike all but a select group of the most elite in the game. If he didn't land takedowns on every attempt or enjoyed the feeling in his fists of a punches impact we wouldn't need this discussion. The malice isn't there standing, and that is a strike against him, but on a skill for skill level, who else do we compare his stand up to? GSP is closer to Silva than Alves or Diaz are to GSP.

GSP is a great striker, but he isn't on par with Machida or Silva. I don't care what the stats say. GSP has his wrestling to help him in the striking department. If you took that away his striking stats wouldn't be nearly as comparable. I'm not saying he isn't a great striker, I'm just saying he isn't as good as those two imo. GSP has never trained with Steven Seagal so it really isn't a fair comparison. You guys should all know this as hardcore MMA fans.

bigbeastcardinal12 wrote:

GSP is a great striker, but he isn't on par with Machida or Silva. I don't care what the stats say. GSP has his wrestling to help him in the striking department. If you took that away his striking stats wouldn't be nearly as comparable. I'm not saying he isn't a great striker, I'm just saying he isn't as good as those two imo. GSP has never trained with Steven Seagal so it really isn't a fair comparison. You guys should all know this as hardcore MMA fans.

I already explained why the stats are inflated, it really is obvious. It's not like anyone here is saying GSP sucks or GSP isn't anything other then an elite mixed martial artist. I said he wasn't the BEST wrestler or striker but he is the best mixed martial artist. That is far from insulting to GSP.

OU wrote:

bigbeastcardinal12 wrote:

GSP is a great striker, but he isn't on par with Machida or Silva. I don't care what the stats say. GSP has his wrestling to help him in the striking department. If you took that away his striking stats wouldn't be nearly as comparable. I'm not saying he isn't a great striker, I'm just saying he isn't as good as those two imo. GSP has never trained with Steven Seagal so it really isn't a fair comparison. You guys should all know this as hardcore MMA fans.

I already explained why the stats are inflated, it really is obvious. It's not like anyone here is saying GSP sucks or GSP isn't anything other then an elite mixed martial artist. I said he wasn't the BEST wrestler or striker but he is the best mixed martial artist. That is far from insulting to GSP.

I agree

Also I'm not one that is constantly calling GSP boring, only thing I say I don't like about GSP is his lack of killer instinct. He didn't want to break Hardy's arm when he refused to tap and he wouldn't finish off Kos when he had him hurt. But Wolf is on record of saying that just isn't his mentality and suggest he is almost incapable of pulling the trigger to put his opponents away. I didn't say anything that was any worse then that.

OU wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Most of my first hand karate knowledge comes from
watching my 8 year old son's two tournament victories, and his lessons,
so take anything you read with a grain of salt.

ha ha like the rest of you I got plenty of internet fighting knowledge. My 8 year old tries to land Machida kicks on me. No can defend.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

OU wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Most of my first hand karate knowledge comes from
watching my 8 year old son's two tournament victories, and his lessons,
so take anything you read with a grain of salt.

ha ha like the rest of you I got plenty of internet fighting knowledge. My 8 year old tries to land Machida kicks on me. No can defend.

Look eye, always look eye.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

OU wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Most of my first hand karate knowledge comes from
watching my 8 year old son's two tournament victories, and his lessons,
so take anything you read with a grain of salt.

ha ha like the rest of you I got plenty of internet fighting knowledge. My 8 year old tries to land Machida kicks on me. No can defend.

Internet fighting knowledge is some of the best out there dude. I think some of us are 50 times more qualified to sit ringside with a scorecard before most of today's judges. I'm just sayin