My new Blog. Where the UFC failed is where the Strikeforce tournament shines.

http://www.ninjasplace.com/n11496-what-the-strikeforce-tournament-is-really-designed-to-do-and-what-the-ufc-failed-to-do

Comment here or in the comments section, show love to the NP. I feed off the valid opinions of our high level group. Thoughts will be appreciated.

also, there has been a rash of fanposts at BE in the last hour and it may already be buried before it gets the play it deserves. rec it over there so it can stay at the top long enough to be read.

The idea of a lineal title stems from racism in the early nineteen hundreds. Jack Johnson was the champion, but people refused to accept it, and since Jim Jeffries retired undefeated, they could always say that he wasn't the true champ. Of course he ended up whooping on Jeffries, and there wasn't much that could be said about it after that. Just wanted to point out the history of the lineal title and show that it's not necessarily some well thought out idea to crown a "true" champion, but more of a social idea invented to keep a black man from being the champion.

Past prejudices and present ideology. What do you think is the relevant relationship?

The lineal title has had nothing to with race in boxing for 100 years and would exist either way. I don't know if this is a troll or not.

chorky777 wrote:

The idea of a lineal title stems from racism in the early nineteen hundreds. Jack Johnson was the champion, but people refused to accept it, and since Jim Jeffries retired undefeated, they could always say that he wasn't the true champ. Of course he ended up whooping on Jeffries, and there wasn't much that could be said about it after that. Just wanted to point out the history of the lineal title and show that it's not necessarily some well thought out idea to crown a "true" champion, but more of a social idea invented to keep a black man from being the champion.

ya but going back even further, John L. Sullivan was the first true lineal champ when he knocked out a damn brit I cant think of his name at the moment.

lineal title in boxing went Sullivan, Corbett, Fitzsimmons, Jeffries (retires), Marvin Hart, Tommy Burns, Jack Johnson, Jess Willard, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney (retires as champ),Schmeling, Jack Sharkey, Primo Carnera, Max Baer, Braddock, Joe Louis (retires), Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott, Rocky Marciano, Floyd Patterson, Ingemar Johansen, Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston, Cassius Clay (forced out), Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Muhammad Ali, Leon Spinks, Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, Michael Spinks, Mike Tyson, Buster Douglas, Evander Holyfield, Michael Moorer, George Foreman..... then things get tricky, Shannon Briggs fight happens, no one agrees he is champ, we do not have a lineal heavyweight champ until Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield face, so Lennox Lewis (retires), Vitali Klitschko (retires), Wladimir Klitschko

and thats off the fucking dome

Wolfgangsta wrote:

also, there has been a rash of fanposts at BE in the last hour and it may already be buried before it gets the play it deserves. rec it over there so it can stay at the top long enough to be read.

Rec'd at BE.

Birdofthad wrote:

chorky777 wrote:

The idea of a lineal title stems from racism in the early nineteen hundreds. Jack Johnson was the champion, but people refused to accept it, and since Jim Jeffries retired undefeated, they could always say that he wasn't the true champ. Of course he ended up whooping on Jeffries, and there wasn't much that could be said about it after that. Just wanted to point out the history of the lineal title and show that it's not necessarily some well thought out idea to crown a "true" champion, but more of a social idea invented to keep a black man from being the champion.

ya but going back even further, John L. Sullivan was the first true lineal champ when he knocked out a damn brit I cant think of his name at the moment.

Right, but the idea of a lineal title didn't come to fruition until Johnson became champ. The guys before were just considered the champion. Then Jeffries retired, and the title went to Marvin Hart. Nobody thought of Marvin Hart as anything less than the heavyweight champ. Nobody ever thought of a "lineal title" until Jack Johnson whooped on Tommy Burns. That's when people came up with the idea that the true champion was still Jim Jeffries, and people weren't going to consider Jack Johnson the "true" champion unless he beat Jeffries.

no mmaeyes, honestly Sullivan was considered the first lineal champ. There was a brit who claimed to be the best out tehre, Sullivan beat him and was considered the first lineal champ. I know all about Johnson- Jeffries but the man that is considered the first lineal heavyweight champion of the world was Sullivan

Ask yourself this question

Why was Jeffries considered the champ then over Johnson? Cause he retired with the lineal belt that was won by Sullivan, then Corbett, then Fitzsimmons, and then Jeffries.

They didnt just say man Jeffries good and white, plus he was never beaten, it was the fact that he was the man who beat the man, who beat the man, who beat the man.

Birdofthad wrote:

no mmaeyes, honestly Sullivan was considered the first lineal champ. There was a brit who claimed to be the best out tehre, Sullivan beat him and was considered the first lineal champ. I know all about Johnson- Jeffries but the man that is considered the first lineal heavyweight champion of the world was Sullivan

Ask yourself this question

Why was Jeffries considered the champ then over Johnson? Cause he retired with the lineal belt that was won by Sullivan, then Corbett, then Fitzsimmons, and then Jeffries.

They didnt just say man Jeffries good and white, plus he was never beaten, it was the fact that he was the man who beat the man, who beat the man, who beat the man.

I'm pretty sure you're missing my point(as well as confusing me for mmaeyes). I agree that Jeffries was called the lineal champion because he beat Fitzsimmons who beat Corbett who beat Sullivan. I'm not disagreeing there. What I'm saying is that the idea of the lineal title didn't exist until after Johnson became champ. Sullivan was never considered the "lineal champ" in his day. He was just considered the heavyweight champ. The idea that the lineal title began with him was invented later.

So in a few months the SF MW champion will be GSP! 2 BELTS FOR RUSH!

Chorky I can't post links on iPad haven't figured out how to but google lineal heavyweight champ, go to any of the lists, east side boxing has a good read on the subject. They all have Sullivan as the first

Birdofthad wrote:

Chorky I can't post links on iPad haven't figured out how to but google lineal heavyweight champ, go to any of the lists, east side boxing has a good read on the subject. They all have Sullivan as the first

I don't know what I'm doing wrong in explaining this.... I know that Sullivan is the first lineal champion. I'm not disputing that. What I'm saying is that he wasn't considered that until after Jack Johnson became the champion. The idea of a lineal champion didn't exist until Johnson was the champ. Then they created the idea, and led to Sullivan being considered the first true heavyweight champion.

lol poor chorky