1941-1960 Immortal nominees and voting

NOMINEES FROM 1940-1960

Sugar Ray Robinson-Questions?

Ezzard Charles-Defeated Burley, Moore, Louis, Walcott, Bivins. Maybe greatest light heavy.

Archie Moore-Knockout leader, longtime LHW champ.

Carmen Basilio-Welter and middle King. Wins over Robinson, Ike Williams, Art Aragon, Tony DeMarco.

Kid Gavilan-Welter king after Robinson. Wins over Williams, Basilio, Jack, Bratton, Dauthuille.

Ike Williams-Longtime lightweight king. Wins over Gavilan, Montgomery, Angott, Bratton, Jack.

Willie Pep-Questions?

Sandy Saddler-Longtime feather king. HUGE puncher. 3 over Pep, also beat Elorde, routinely beat top lightweights.

Manuel Ortiz-Longtime bantam king. Fought EVERYONE. Over 15 defenses.

Pascual Perez-Dominant flyweight of the era. Ten defenses.

DMAR adds

Rocky Marciano-Only heavy champ to retire unbeaten. Division wrecker of the first order.

Marcel Cerdan-Middleweight cruncher with over 100 wins. Destroyed Tony Zale.

FRANK adds

Charley Burley-Extraordinary welter and middle. Beat Archie Moore on short notice, Holman Williams and Ray Robinson wanted no part of him.

Current Votes Yes
Dmar- marciano, pep, robinson, moore, charles, saddler, ortiz, cerdan
Frank- Burley, marciano, pep, robinson, moore, charles, saddler, ortiz, cerdan
Mark- SRR, Charles, Marciano, Moore, Pep, Sadler, Ortiz, Saddler, Cerdan, Burley
Marble- Saddler, Pep, Robinson, Ortiz, Charles, Moore, Gavilan, Perez, Williams, Burley
Captain-Robinson, Charles, Moore, Basillio, Gavilan, Pep, Saddler, Marciano
Bobbitt- Burley, Charles, Marciano, Moore, Ortiz, Pep, Robinson, Sadler
Bird- Pep, Saddler, Robinson, Charles, Marciano, Mongoose, Burley

you are missing one major one..rocky marciano..at 180-185 he would of been the man in any LH or crizier era and before the cruzie era as angie dundee once said..hell rocky would of been great in any era..

id also nominate cerdan and billy conn.

my votes are.marciano pep robinson moore charles saddler ortiz and cerdan.

dmar5143 wrote:

my votes are.marciano pep robinson moore charles saddler ortiz and cerdan.

I agree with all these. How could anyone disagree. I would add Charlie Burley.

dmar5143 wrote:

you are missing one major one..rocky marciano..at 180-185 he would of been in any LH or crizier era and before the cruzie era as angie dundee once said..hell rocky would of been great in any era..

D'OH!!!!!!!!!!! he and Cerdan I added for you.

1940-1960 I vote yes for

Saddler, Pep, Robinson, Ortiz, Charles, Moore, Gavilan, Perez, Williams and Burley.

dmar5143 wrote:
amazing marble since marciano beat 2 of your choices.archie moore who indeed was at his best.LH champ beating top heavy contenders and like walcott a late bloomer in developing a prime and charles only 2 years older than rocky.still a great fighter yes at that time but at the lower end of the curve or bell in his peak.non the less still great untill after those 2 fights with rocky..


Marciano is ANOTHER guy I struggle with the same way I struggle with Dempsey and for the same reasons. Both guys best wins as champ were really against LHW's in a thin era. Not their fault. I mean are both of those guys GREAT? Damned right. All-Time great? You betcha! Are they immortals if we're trying to keep things tight? I can be convinced but they aren't no brainers for me.

As a point of comparison, I think a smaller man who won titles at 160, 175 and heavy has GOT to be ranked ahead of those two.

marble to me there are only 5 icons in boxing..just 5..its based on legend popularity accomplishments in the ring public acceptence and there talked about 50 to 90 years after they won a title..there special in my mind..dempsey louis robinson marciano and ali are the icons..rocky was lighter then most the guys he fought.0moore fight night outweighed him by half pound or so..he destroyed moore a all time great in his heyday..rocky and charles same size.destroyed a still great fighter.as i described in a previous post.at the end of his curve in his greatness but theres no doubt the resuly would be the same..beat walcott when joe was at his best.walcott matured late..crushed a good fighter in lastarza and yes the top LH in matthews but rocky was what 5 pounds heavier..he came at the tail end of a great ea and beat some great fighters at there best.crushed other good fightes and did so many things well.balance counter punch leverage a master there great accuracy yes missed by a mile a few times.sliped punches well cut the ring off better then anyone and very intelligent fighter.
its how he won also..count 100 over louis walcott layne vingo and others..many a K after his wins not tko..the ten count.more then anything he was a huge plus for boxing in a era of stench..conducted himself as a gentleman with humilty..jim murray said rocky was a rose in a garbage dump..if any two deserve to be called immortals its rocky and dempsey..do you realy think gaviln deserves your vote and they do not..i respect your thoughts greatly but think about that..we are naming the immortals of this great sport..gavi8ln in rocky and jack are not...you know better than that.

dmar5143 wrote:

marble to me there are only 5 icons in boxing..just 5..its based on legend popularity accomplishments in the ring public acceptence and there talked about 50 to 90 years after they won a title..there special in my mind..dempsey louis robinson marciano and ali are the icons..rocky was lighter then most the guys he fought.0moore fight night outweighed him by half pound or so..he destroyed moore a all time great in his heyday..rocky and charles same size.destroyed a still great fighter.as i described in a previous post.at the end of his curve in his greatness but theres no doubt the resuly would be the same..beat walcott when joe was at his best.walcott matured late..crushed a good fighter in lastarza and yes the top LH in matthews but rocky was what 5 pounds heavier..he came at the tail end of a great ea and beat some great fighters at there best.crushed other good fightes and did so many things well.balance counter punch leverage a master there great accuracy yes missed by a mile a few times.sliped punches well cut the ring off better then anyone and very intelligent fighter.
its how he won also..count 100 over louis walcott layne vingo and others..many a K after his wins not tko..the ten count.more then anything he was a huge plus for boxing in a era of stench..conducted himself as a gentleman with humilty..jim murray said rocky was a rose in a garbage dump..if any two deserve to be called immortals its rocky and dempsey..do you realy think gaviln deserves your vote and they do not..i respect your thoughts greatly but think about that..we are naming the immortals of this great sport..gavi8ln in rocky and jack are not...you know better than that.

I hear ya. But what we are doing isn't about being famous or iconic or being a good guy is it? It is simply about accomplishment. That CANNOT be the reason behind those five iconic figures. 1/8 of the divisions create four of the five icons? Plenty wrong with that notion isn't there? Marciano defeated what? A dozen ranked guys? Nothing to sneer at. But his biggest wins were over LHW. It's not open to debate. Moore could never get over the hump at heavy. Ezzard was an EXTRAORDINARY fighter. But in the year BEFORE he met the Rock he had been beaten by Nino Valdes and Harold Johnson. Now again, I don't want it to seem like I'm denigrating Marciano, I'm not. It's just that I am trying to be extremely stringent. So are you. But the idea that Marciano accomplished more than Bob Fitzsimmons is pretty misguided if you ask me.

Dempsey is a harder case because he really was a revolution in the heavies. But I wish he'd have faced Wills and Greb.

Yes- SRR, Charles, Marciano, Moore, Pep, Sadler, Ortiz, Saddler, Cerdan, Burley

Bump please vote guys. Thanks

For me its:
Robinson
Charles
Moore
Basillio
Gavilan
Pep
Saddler
Marciano

Burley
Charles
Marciano
Moore
Ortiz
Pep
Robinson
Sadler

Pep, Saddler, Robinson, Charles, Marciano, Mongoose, Burley