IOLE'S MOST INFLUENTIAL

Yahoo boxing writer Kevin Iole has put together a pretty nice thought piece. Boxing's most influential figures.

Here are #'s 100-51 http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slug=ki-tophundred090310

And here's #50-1 http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slug=ki-topfifty090510

he has the first couple correct I think.

Muhammad Ali at #1, Joe Louis at #2 and Tex Rickard at #3.

I think he rates promoters Arum and King a little too highly at 4 and 5 while underrating Mike Jacobs at 18.

He severely underrates Nat Fliescher at #14.

On trainers he has Dundee too high (first trainer) at 19 while Ray Arcel and Whitey Bimstein are in the forties. Just wrong I think. If we are talking influential, Arcel or Eddie Futch have to be mentioned first.

On media figures he has Howard Cosell at 10 before AJ Liebling and Fleischer. A mistake I think. Paul Gallico, the founder of the Golden Gloves in the forties? I don't think so!

I'll let you comment on your own but I note the following exclusions:

UTTER TRAVESTIES-Both John L. Sullivan and John Graham Chambers belong in the top ten.

TRAVESTIES-Ted Kid Lewis got the first mouthpiece made and George Dixon brought shadow boxing and a hanging bag into prominent use. Jimmy Wilde had a division more or less created for him. Cuyo Hernandez played a huge role in driving Mexican boxing in the 50's-70's. William Muldoon who formalized fitness driven boxing training in the 1890's and who later became the first head of NYSAC. Lou Stillman, proprietor of the most influential boxing gym in history.

FOLKS I WOULD HAVE INCLUDED-Jim Norris and Frankie Carbo, Jack Blackburn for training and preparing Joe Louis and Max Schmeling for the role he played in the Louis fights. I also would have included Joe Gans as perhaps the first truly complete fighter as we understand the concept today. Benny Leonard influenced two decades of Jewish fighters. Jacob Golom, the founder of Everlast. Finally, given where the sport is right now. Messers Churchill, Tait and Tait who brought boxing to the PHillipines around 1900.

Who would I take from Iole's list? For the most part fighters themselves. Great fighters are not necessarily influential. As much as I admire Felix Trinidad, Lennox Lewis, Teofilo Stevenson, Aaron Pryor, Sweet Pea, BHOP, Evander and Leon Spinks? I can't think of a single way they really changed the sport.

What say you?

very interesting article and well thought out but obvious blunders at least to me..john l sullivan not in the top 100 but sonny liston is..thats a huge joke.sullivan i feel was boxings first super star..brought boxing to light via coverages in the police gazette and in the infancy of boxing perhaps was the first recognizable name or semi household name...liston had not one influence in boxing at all not one..jim norris and carbo are a part of boxing history if you did a study so to speak..listons a footnote at best....i cant stand ferrdie pacheco..what influence...one of the 2 or 3 greatest shills a phoney one at that....sam taub and harry markson perhaps deserve a higher rating...cossell at 10 is the biggest joke..nat fletcher as much as i hate his soo called opinions is a top tener maybe top 7 or 8...ring magazine was truly the bible of boxing for many years in nats day and after it..the ring belt a treasure and a magazine of the finest quality brought boxing into the homes of america..all boxing unlike police gazzete which had several topics and some where just for commercial sensationalism....lou stillman not in the top 150..hmmm..its like saying yankee statium and lambeou field is just a neighborhood playground...noo honorable mention to al weil or sam silveman unless i overlooked it somehow....mayor jimmy walker deserves his rankings of course...the list is impressive and a idea that was marvelous..

cus damata rated way tooo high..a great image for boxing..yes absolutely..knowledgeable historian..yep.honorable work..yes..top 100 yes..not number 23...marble your list of who dont belong is correct..not only do they not belong there names should not even pop into the heads of true boxing historians in this topic..there more deserving then newspaper reporter red smith..nope.

i read this yesterday and i disagreed with a lot of it too. i gave him the benefit of the doubt though that 100 names is a lot so he was probably just throwing some out there to get to 100. but who knows. anyways, i had a lot of the same problems as you. i just cant believe that john l sullivan wasnt in there.

[quote="dmar5143"]very interesting article and well thought out but obvious blunders at least to me..john l sullivan not in the top 100 but sonny liston is..thats a huge joke.sullivan i feel was boxings first super star..brought boxing to light via coverages in the police gazette and in the infancy of boxing perhaps was the first recognizable name or semi household name...liston had not one influence in boxing at all not one..jim norris and carbo are a part of boxing history if you did a study so to speak..listons a footnote at best....i cant stand ferrdie pacheco..what influence...one of the 2 or 3 greatest shills a phoney one at that....sam taub and harry markson perhaps deserve a higher rating...cossell at 10 is the biggest joke..nat fletcher as much as i hate his soo called opinions is a top tener maybe top 7 or 8...ring magazine was truly the bible of boxing for many years in nats day and after it..the ring belt a treasure and a magazine of the finest quality brought boxing into the homes of america..all boxing unlike police gazzete which had several topics and some where just for commercial sensationalism....lou stillman not in the top 150..hmmm..its like saying yankee statium and lambeou field is just a neighborhood playground...noo honorable mention to al weil or sam silveman unless i overlooked it somehow....mayor jimmy walker deserves his rankings of course...the list is impressive and a idea that was marvelous..[/quote]

It really is sin't it?

Marble, your list is far more informative than theirs's. Thanks for the info.

4445Frank wrote:

Marble, your list is far more informative than theirs's. Thanks for the info.

My pleasure. But Iole gets big points for the idea.

What kind of writer is Iole? He's the UFC's un-official press secretary to most MMA fans and nearly universally hated.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

What kind of writer is Iole? He's the UFC's un-official press secretary to most MMA fans and nearly universally hated.

I could care less what the masses think about damned near anything.

Iole doesn't know as much boxing as I wish he did, but this was actually a pretty good idea.

Iole isn't as polished as your Hauser or Houston but you can't knock the man's enthusiasm.

Iole is a journalistic mouthpiece for the UFC when it comes to his MMA "reporting" though.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Iole is a journalistic mouthpiece for the UFC when it comes to his MMA "reporting" though.

Gotta take your word for it. In some ways Dan Rafael plays that role for the various promoters in boxing. He's an information funnel far more than a disinterested commenter.

Ali_1748 wrote:

Iole isn't as polished as your Hauser or Houston but you can't knock the man's enthusiasm.

I don't know what it is. I suspect I'd enjoy reading Houston's version of a phone book whereas Hauser's description of Arguello-Pryor would bore me.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Ali_1748 wrote:

Iole isn't as polished as your Hauser or Houston but you can't knock the man's enthusiasm.

I don't know what it is. I suspect I'd enjoy reading Houston's version of a phone book whereas Hauser's description of Arguello-Pryor would bore me.

Speaking of Houston, what was the great Jedi's predictions of Segura vs Calderon and Burns vs Martinez ?

Ali_1748 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Ali_1748 wrote:

Iole isn't as polished as your Hauser or Houston but you can't knock the man's enthusiasm.

I don't know what it is. I suspect I'd enjoy reading Houston's version of a phone book whereas Hauser's description of Arguello-Pryor would bore me.

Speaking of Houston, what was the great Jedi's predictions of Segura vs Calderon and Burns vs Martinez ?

He leaned towards Martinez but said the site of the fight gave Burns a chance. He called the Segura-Calderon fight for Calderon...unless he got old.

Ok now that's just spooky.

shitty list theres my opinion

Birdofthad wrote:

shitty list theres my opinion

He's probably got 60-70 guys on there who'd be on my list too. It's not terrible and it's one hell of an idea.

I would have put DLH on that list, he is certainly one of the most influential people in Boxing since he became pro