DOESN'T BODYPUNCHING COUNT?

I am always preaching that watching a fight at ringside just isn't the same as watching on TV. It is closer, from below, and from a consistent angle. It's how fights are judged. TV usually is somewhat deceptive. I had the fight 6-5-1 Glen Johnson with two rounds very close that I gave to Johnson and the ninth which I scored even.

The ONLY way I could see 8-4 Tavoris Cloud is if the judges agreed not to score the myriad inside body punches, particularly the left, landed by Johnson throughout the fight. He kept landing short, clean lefts to the center of Cloud's body and those won him at least three rounds in my view.

Now Cloud fought very well, his feet were better than I have ever seen them. He took two rounds off though and while I don't have a problem with him winning a decision in what was a VERY close fight.

But 8-4? I wonder if I saw the bodywork better than the judges did.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

I am always preaching that watching a fight at ringside just isn't the same as watching on TV. It is closer, from below, and from a consistent angle. It's how fights are judged. TV usually is somewhat deceptive. I had the fight 6-5-1 Glen Johnson with two rounds very close that I gave to Johnson and the ninth which I scored even.

The ONLY way I could see 8-4 Tavoris Cloud is if the judges agreed not to score the myriad inside body punches, particularly the left, landed by Johnson throughout the fight. He kept landing short, clean lefts to the center of Cloud's body and those won him at least three rounds in my view.

Now Cloud fought very well, his feet were better than I have ever seen them. He took two rounds off though and while I don't have a problem with him winning a decision in what was a VERY close fight.

But 8-4? I wonder if I saw the bodywork better than the judges did.

And on the other side of things, when you have your opponent hurt you are instructed to attack the body. Cloud did not attack the body when he was supposed to. A cagey veteran with a high guard such as Johnson can weather a storm, he's only been KO'd once. I was literaly screaming at the TV for Cloud to attack the body everytime he had Glen hurt.

As for your post Marble the close rounds you gave to Johnson I gave to Cloud, but I can see your side as well. I definitely agree that Johnson did a great job at going to Clounds body.

apparently integrity doesn't count for anything in this farce of a sport. there is no defending what happened tonight. but hey, the HBO backed American heroes prevailed, so all is good and tomorrow it's business as usual.

hardcoreBEE24 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

I am always preaching that watching a fight at ringside just isn't the same as watching on TV. It is closer, from below, and from a consistent angle. It's how fights are judged. TV usually is somewhat deceptive. I had the fight 6-5-1 Glen Johnson with two rounds very close that I gave to Johnson and the ninth which I scored even.

The ONLY way I could see 8-4 Tavoris Cloud is if the judges agreed not to score the myriad inside body punches, particularly the left, landed by Johnson throughout the fight. He kept landing short, clean lefts to the center of Cloud's body and those won him at least three rounds in my view.

Now Cloud fought very well, his feet were better than I have ever seen them. He took two rounds off though and while I don't have a problem with him winning a decision in what was a VERY close fight.

But 8-4? I wonder if I saw the bodywork better than the judges did.

And on the other side of things, when you have your opponent hurt you are instructed to attack the body. Cloud did not attack the body when he was supposed to. A cagey veteran with a high guard such as Johnson can weather a storm, he's only been KO'd once. I was literaly screaming at the TV for Cloud to attack the body everytime he had Glen hurt.

As for your post Marble the close rounds you gave to Johnson I gave to Cloud, but I can see your side as well. I definitely agree that Johnson did a great job at going to Clounds body.

Nice post. I have NO problem with Cloud getting the decision. It was one of those fights that was so close you just throw it into the hands of the judges and live with it. As for Cloud, you are dead right about him not busting the old man to the body when he was rocked.

Canvas wrote:

apparently integrity doesn't count for anything in this farce of a sport. there is no defending what happened tonight. but hey, the HBO backed American heroes prevailed, so all is good and tomorrow it's business as usual.

The HBO announcers didnt back the american fighters.

funny story when getting licensed to judge amateur i asked, "so do we not judge body punches or what"

they said no we judge body punches, its jsut that the Olympic boxing judges suck

sometimes i wonder

havent seen the fight but will watch it, sounds like Johnson gave his normal game performance

another thing, when i am attending a fight and a fighter is hurt i always shout "Body body head" (the inner undefeated trainer in me makes me, ya thats right Im 1-0 as a trainer hahaha)

I scored it 7-5 for Johnson, but I was favoring the Road warrior in the close rounds. I have no problem with Cloud winning. On this board and I'd assume other boards, boxing fans scoring at home were split between Cloud winning close, a draw, or a Johnson win.

It is the score. 8 rounds to 4 is pretty bad. And all 3 judges. I would think in this fight Johnson would get a draw on 1 card at the least.

Marble-back to the title of your post: Doesn't bodypunching count.

bodypunching and outworking an opponent via the jab counts if you are the bigger name fighter. It doesn't count for the Glen Johnsons of the boxing world. They lose 8-4 decisions.

The number of fights with hometown/bigger name fighter winning by a decent margin, where it is an even fight, is huge.

The number of fights with a hometown/bigger name actually losing a close fight is very, very, very, small.


I'm becoming so cynical but that is where we are. Before the fights last night we knew there was no way Johnson would win a decision. There was no way Kotelnik would win a decision (I didn't score round by round so no idea if the 8-4 cards by judges were good, so-so, or plain bad).

captainanddew wrote:

Marble-back to the title of your post: Doesn't bodypunching count.

bodypunching and outworking an opponent via the jab counts if you are the bigger name fighter. It doesn't count for the Glen Johnsons of the boxing world. They lose 8-4 decisions.

The number of fights with hometown/bigger name fighter winning by a decent margin, where it is an even fight, is huge.

The number of fights with a hometown/bigger name actually losing a close fight is very, very, very, small.


I'm becoming so cynical but that is where we are. Before the fights last night we knew there was no way Johnson would win a decision. There was no way Kotelnik would win a decision (I didn't score round by round so no idea if the 8-4 cards by judges were good, so-so, or plain bad).

The bold is VERY funny and very sad at the same time.

I agree with Marble's thread and most of the answers on here. To make it simple, I think the judges scored the fight in their hotel rooms. If Cloud was on his feet after round 12, he was getting the decision. I'm not angry about it. It was a reality I accepted days before the fight. I don't have a problem with Cloud getting the decision, however, Johnson did not have a realistic chance of winning a 12 round nod over a Don King fighter.

I think there is a lot of crying going on.

Johnson at best should have got a draw.

NBrooks5 wrote:

I think there is a lot of crying going on.

Johnson at best should have got a draw.

Who's crying? Doesn't matter to me who wins. But I thought this was a very poorly judged fight.

NBrooks5 wrote:

I think there is a lot of crying going on.

Johnson at best should have got a draw.

Then give him a draw. They scored it 116 - 112.