Frank Shamrock a HoF?

First in a long, prestigious line of LHW champions, was more successful than his step-brother, and like Sakuraba and Royce, was typically always outweighed by ten-twenty pounds, or more, in most of his fights.

Was the first fighter with high level submissions, striking and wrestling to put it all together. GSP of yesteryear.

Anyone who really believes no should give a good reason.

Certainly yes

He's got my vote, but we have to find a way to get Ken out.

Can we do a swap program?

Like put Frank in by taking Ken out???

joshkellerseattle wrote:

Can we do a swap program?

Like put Frank in by taking Ken out???

That's all I want.

Don't forget his King of Pancrase though it was as interim, also Fighter of the year a few times.

I'm pretty sure he's a lock

Is there some kind of board HoF going on or is this referring to UFC HoF?

I don't understand how 9/9 people so far think he's HoF if it's referring to UFC HoF. If there's ever an MMA HoF Frank Shamrock is a "lock" for sure, but UFC HoF? He had 5 total UFC fights, 3 against [relative] nobodies, 1 against Jeremy Horn, and 1 against Tito Ortiz. I like the guy but nobody with 5 UFC fights is going to get into the UFC HoF, IMO.

Edit: If there's ever an MMA HoF Frank is a first ballot inductee, and if the UFC HoF considers accomplishments outside the HoF he has my vote (hell I'd put him top 10 all time) , but I'll stand alone here and say I don't think he will be in the UFC HoF.

thessy11 wrote:

Is there some kind of board HoF going on or is this referring to UFC HoF?

I don't understand how 9/9 people so far think he's HoF if it's referring to UFC HoF. If there's ever an MMA HoF Frank Shamrock is a "lock" for sure, but UFC HoF? He had 5 total UFC fights, 3 against [relative] nobodies, 1 against Jeremy Horn, and 1 against Tito Ortiz. I like the guy but nobody with 5 UFC fights is going to get into the UFC HoF, IMO.

Edit: If there's ever an MMA HoF Frank is a first ballot inductee, and if the UFC HoF considers accomplishments outside the HoF he has my vote (hell I'd put him top 10 all time) , but I'll stand alone here and say I don't think he will be in the UFC HoF.

What!! yeah man you will stand alone on this one he was one of the first true MMAers. I never liked him but he is HOF.

Yes hopefully him and dana can get along.

thessy11 wrote:

Is there some kind of board HoF going on or is this referring to UFC HoF?

I don't understand how 9/9 people so far think he's HoF if it's referring to UFC HoF. If there's ever an MMA HoF Frank Shamrock is a "lock" for sure, but UFC HoF? He had 5 total UFC fights, 3 against [relative] nobodies, 1 against Jeremy Horn, and 1 against Tito Ortiz. I like the guy but nobody with 5 UFC fights is going to get into the UFC HoF, IMO.

Edit: If there's ever an MMA HoF Frank is a first ballot inductee, and if the UFC HoF considers accomplishments outside the HoF he has my vote (hell I'd put him top 10 all time) , but I'll stand alone here and say I don't think he will be in the UFC HoF.

Five UFC fights and one WEC fight, all title fights he was victorious in. Kevin Jackson had already won a UFC tournament and a gold medal in the Olympics in wrestling - not a nobody by any stretch. Igor was undefeated and was easily a top ten fighter with wins over Mario Sperry and Enson Inoue, definitly not a nobody. Shamrock retired him with a crushing slam. John Lober if I recall correctly was a replacement for someone else. That win is questionable. No idea about the guy he beat in the WEC though.

In MMA at the time, those wins were as good as you were going to get. This was a different era.

I respectfully disagree on what defines a nobody. A fighter who has not beaten anyone noteworthy but has yet to be exposed himself is not a 'somebody' to me.

Kevin Jackson was 2-2 in the UFC lifetime. His tournament win was a result of 2 victories, one over a guy who was 0-1 (1-4 lifetime) and one against Tony Fryklund.

Igor may have been top 10, the only fight I ever watched of his was the one against Shamrock, but if so he was top 10 due to lack of competition. Igor did beat Inoue (and Inoue's biggest win at that point in his career was against a 52 year old Zulu Sr) and Sperry (Sperry was 2-0 when he fought Igor. Sperry's 2 wins came against fighters with a combined 0-6 record), but I disagree on the amount of credibility those wins carry.

I'm not saying any of this to bash Shamrock - he didn't choose who he fought. It was a different era and he was a revolutionary fighter and pioneer for sure.

In MMA at the time there were no established stars hardly at all, and no one with a lot of "quality wins". Those wins were as good as they get. While we're at it lets assassinate all of Royce's wins too.

Royce was a one-dimensional fighter hand picked to fight in the UFC by his brother, one of the UFC's co-founders, knowing nobody else in the competition had any way to deal with jiu-jitsu at the time. He couldn't have held Frank Shamrock's jock strap.

Ken Shamrock had real good submission chops. The UFC at that stage was style vs style, so lets all bash Royce for having the best one. Thessy stop filtering MMA of yesteryear through today's standards.

Nobody bashed Royce for having the best style, but it's not as if he came into the UFC at random or by chance for the sake of proving he was the Ultimate Fighter. In a documentary one of the Gracie's even admitted he was put in the UFC because the family had inside knowledge of the competition and wanted to market their family business/product.

Why can't you just agree to disagree instead of trying to bash me for not being a sheep blindly following everyone? At least I have an original opinion formed from watching the fights myself. Half of these guys are 20 years old and hadn't started kindergarten when Royce and Frank were fighting. Their "opinion" was formed by reading the opinions of others online, or if they're really "hardcore fans" they went and found some of the fight videos online after their opinions had already been forged by their e-friends.

I'm not bashing you. Ya, the early UFC's were sort of a gracie jj infomercial, but the way you characterize them makes it sound as if it was rigged, or fixed.

You're holding both Shamrock and Royce Gracie to unrealistic standards of today's MMA.

That's not my intention, so I apologize if I come off that way.

Gracie was not well rounded, but why would anyone be if they didn't have to. Shamrock was very well rounded and was a pioneer of the sport. In no way am I trying to hold Shamrock to today's standards (hell the guy is still competitive by today's standards), I just disagree that he accomplished enough within the UFC to be inducted into the UFC HoF. If accomplishments outside MMA are considered, or if there's ever an MMA HoF, he's in hands down. He would be in my top 10 of all time, probably 6-7.

But who else could he have fought in those days? He's undefeated in the UFC/WEC with five wins all in title fights, defeating the best there was in the promotion at the time. He is the first in a long lineage of dominant LHW champions to have lengthy runs in the division, with Wanderlei, Ortiz and Liddell following in his foot-steps.