Gonzaga to appeal Browne loss

http://www.5thround.com/144297/gabriel-gonzagas-team-plans-to-appeal-tko-loss-to-travis-browne/

Does Gabe have a case ?

I think GG was KO'd before the last two elbows, which were illegal, landed. The shots that KO'd him were not on the mohawk but behind the ear, legal. It looked like GG lost consciousness and slouched into the last two while Tognoni was moving in to end it.

It reminded me very much of when Hendo KO'd Fedor. He hit the punch under and KO'd him, the next punch was already on it's way when Fedor crumpled and the next two punches from Hendo to him were illegal to the back of the head, But Dean was moving in to stop the fight from the legal punch. It happens extremely fast like with the Browne win, but the legal strikes got the win.

If there is a penalty for illegal shots after the fight, I could see that coming into play perhaps, but with how fast this happened like with the Hendo fight and the ref recognizing the finishing shots, I don't think the win should be in jeopardy myself. Maybe a fine to emphasize safety though. If GG had no visual effects from the legal shots and the ref only saw illegal strikes as being those that effected him enough to stop the fight, he would of DQ'd Browne. Much of any appeal on this will rely on his interpretation I would think.

I am fine with the current results though. Though I need an experienced and licensed official to tell me how it is.

yep GG was out cold before the illegal strikes came

It'll come down to how they view the third to last shot I think, the one that KO'd him. It was clear that the two blatantly illegal shots came after GG knees buckled as he was going down I thought after watching the replays a few times. It will just depend on how NSAC views it. The only thing that will surprise me is if no action what so ever is taken. I could see a fine to a DQ and anything in between. Either way I consider Browne the winner, I think he beat GG before the last two elbows.

Dana even gave him KO of the Night money.

I think the last two were illegal, looks to me a lot like he lost consciousness before them though. But if I lean to one side or the other on what NSAC will do, I think they will make a finding against Browne's victory in some way so as to put an additional emphasis on safety.

They all looked illegal to me except maybe the very very last one that landed on Gabe's right ear. He may have a case because even if a couple legal ones are the ones that originally hurt Gabe, and even there i have my doubts...two or three huge illegal elbows cannot be ignored because you can say he was "done" all you want, but the fact is the fight was not officially over and landing those kind of elbows to the back of the head is incredibly dangerous, reckless, and dirty...maybe ESPECIALLY if the other fighter is already out of the fight. It's hard to put it on the ref as well because of the speed Browne delivered them at.

A coulpe might have been illegal but I never saw any evidence that Travis was throwing them intently, Gonzaga was out before Browne even knew. Ref's need to react as quickly as possibly in these scenarios especially when it's HW's.

KingsOwn19 wrote:

They all looked illegal to me except maybe the very very last one that landed on Gabe's right ear. He may have a case beecause even if a couple legal ones are the ones that originally hurt Gabe, and even there i have my doubts...two or three huge illegal elbows cannot be ignored because you can say he was "done" all you want, but the fact is the fight was not officially over and landing those kind of elbows to the back of the head is incredibly dangerous, reckless, and dirty...maybe ESPECIALLY if the other fighter is already out of the fight. It's hard to put it on the ref as well because of the speed Browne delivered them at.

Fight officially over is determined by the ref, who was moving in when GG buckled and went down, before the last two elbows came, but not quick enough to prevent them entirely. Similar to Hendo vs Fedor. I thought the red did a pretty good job reacting and getting in there as soon as could be, but it was over.

Ali* wrote:

A coulpe might have been illegal but I never saw any evidence that Travis was throwing them intently, Gonzaga was out before Browne even knew. Ref's need to react as quickly as possibly in these scenarios especially when it's HW's.

intent does not really matter to me...nor the fallen fighter turning their head. It's the offensive fighters responsibility to make sure his shots are legal and Browne failed IMO. We'll see what happens....fighters have been DQ'd for less.

KingsOwn19 wrote:

Ali* wrote:

A coulpe might have been illegal but I never saw any evidence that Travis was throwing them intently, Gonzaga was out before Browne even knew. Ref's need to react as quickly as possibly in these scenarios especially when it's HW's.

intent does not really matter to me...nor the fallen fighter turning their head. It's the offensive fighters responsibility to make sure his shots are legal and Browne failed IMO. We'll see what happens....fighters have been DQ'd for less.

Intention is everything for me as I feel it's unfair to discipline actions that happen in a matter of seconds, Browne wasn't trying to break the rules he was just trying to win the fight.

It's the ref's job to look out for the safety of the fighters, that's why I was pissed with Herb Dean standing like a statue during the Bigfoot vs. Overeem finish.

Comment on the ufc rankings site by "rick sherman" regarding Travis Browne

Quote :

travis browne would have the title shot Antonio Silva has if his hamstring didn't get pulled.. he would be undefeated.. he KO struve and is easily a top 5 HW.. but yet the dumb media doesn't even put him in the top 10.. how could this be? SAD I know more about MMA and UFC then most the media.. TRAVIS would smash. MIR even though they train together so that wont happen. but also. hunt struve. nelson, Nogueira. Silva. wow I just looked and now he is at 10 lol. but he wasnt for the longest time..

bobbitt15 wrote:

Comment on the ufc rankings site by "rick sherman" regarding Travis Browne

Quote :

travis browne would have the title shot Antonio Silva has if his hamstring didn't get pulled.. he would be undefeated.. he KO struve and is easily a top 5 HW.. but yet the dumb media doesn't even put him in the top 10.. how could this be? SAD I know more about MMA and UFC then most the media.. TRAVIS would smash. MIR even though they train together so that wont happen. but also. hunt struve. nelson, Nogueira. Silva. wow I just looked and now he is at 10 lol. but he wasnt for the longest time..

what a joke how everybody assumes with zero evidence that this guy who had never defeated anybody of note was gonna beat Silva...and no..he was not winning the Silva fight, he hadnt even made a move.

The hype for this guy was and is once again ridiculous...truth be told.

I was debating having him at 10. He is very close though. He is swappable in theory land with my 4 through 10 and a live fight in all of those matchups right now. But the hamstring setback denies him the one sure fire thing for being in that group today, the marquee main event win. Any win not worse then Schaub puts him there though.

The winner of Cheick Kongo vs Roy Nelson is the perfect fight to book him for. Roy is my current #10 and a benchmark for the top tier of the division imo. Every single person on this site laughed at the notion of Kongo being booked against Browne 3 years ago, myself included, and picked Kongo to smash through him no problem because he was in over his head, some had never even heard of Browne still. Travis was in over his head, but it was still a problem for Kongo and he had to resort to his dirty ways and couldn't beat Travis legit because of it. Fast forward to the present and the roles would be reversed by a wide majority should Kongo defeat Nelson and face Browne in a rematch.

The Kongo fight was the last UFC fight he was involved in where he was not the favorite, and that is for a reason. He has come a long way in those three years, it's easy to see.

How is it the offensive fighters responsibility to ensure that his opponent can't possibly get hit with a shot to an illegal part of the body in a full contact sport involving free range of motion? The term "play until you hear the whistle" applies here. It's not over until the ref gets between you and your opponent or the bell sounds. Look at what happened with Palhares against Marquardt and almost what happened when he fought Dan Miller. The only thing that kept Gonzaga from faceplanting after the first elbow or two was the fact that Browne had an overhook on his right arm, which is why he only slumped over instead of falling straight down. But how is Browne supposed to know Gonzaga isn't just diving for an ankle? That ain't how the game is played.

Ludo wrote:

How is it the offensive fighters responsibility to ensure that his opponent can't possibly get hit with a shot to an illegal part of the body in a full contact sport involving free range of motion? The term "play until you hear the whistle" applies here. It's not over until the ref gets between you and your opponent or the bell sounds. Look at what happened with Palhares against Marquardt and almost what happened when he fought Dan Miller. The only thing that kept Gonzaga from faceplanting after the first elbow or two was the fact that Browne had an overhook on his right arm, which is why he only slumped over instead of falling straight down. But how is Browne supposed to know Gonzaga isn't just diving for an ankle? That ain't how the game is played.

So it's fair game? I didnt suggest he stop fighting but if he can't hit him legally, he oughta stop and go to plan B if he feels Gonzaga can still be in the fight. Continuing with illegal stikes isnt a legal option. I suggest he hit him legally. Which he was not in a position to do at that point as just about every elbow he landed was illegal. So it's OK to keep raining down illegal shots. Clearly. I just don't buy that illegal shots are all of a sudden not illegal or should slide in the refs eyes when Browne can't possibly hit him any other way at that point. Then he isnt in a position to land strikes...simple as that. How is that right? So fuckin what if Gabe might be diving for an ankle..atleast 3 blatant elbows to the back of the head should handle that and it's fair game because Gabe does not have the legal part of his skull exposed? It does not become not illegal if Browne does not think they are illegal or he in theory, can't control himself, or maybe won't get his finish if he does not continue to pound the back of Gabe's skull. He should have been disqualified right there...if things are done correctly after the fact with this appeal he should consider himself fortunate to get out of this with an NC.

Yes..offensive fighters are held responsible for landing multiple illegal strikes. I can understand one slipping through if say Gonzaga's face was fair game when that particular elbow was thrown..but Browne blatantly went to town on the back of his head atleast 3 times. I don't count multiple elbows as one motion. You only get one. If they can't control themselves or they don't fuckin notice what they are doing is illegal not the first, not the second, not the third, but however long Browne would have went on landing illegal strikes until the ref decided Gabe was dead enough...that is their problem and if called correctly, an earned DQ. It's not Gonzaga's job to make sure he's nice a fully exposed for Browne to land legal strikes. They all have to play by the rules. Now nobody stopped Browne from landing these illegal strikes so a NC is the only fair route at this point as Browne can claim since nobody stopped him..fair game. Which without review, is true. This will get reviewed though. Those types of elbows from that position are already walking a thin line between legal and illegal, so any smart fighter would know to be a little selective with them. He just went ape shit and landing one legally and just about the rest illegally. Fejiao's were legal. They were slow. On point. Effective. All legal. Brownes...not legal.

By that logic we should penalize pitchers in the MLB every time someone hits a home run off of them. Are we really going to pretend like he had time to make a conscious decision here? It took like 3 seconds for the ref to get there and in that time Browne landed some 4-5 shots that all looked like they were aimed in the same place. Browne isn't responsible for Gonzaga's movements, nor is Gonzaga responsible for Browne's. If the first elbow landed legally and the rest of them were thrown to the same spot the first one landed, but suddenly Gonzaga moved then it isn't Browne's fault that Gonzaga wasn't in control of his own faculties.

Ludo wrote:

By that logic we should penalize pitchers in the MLB every time someone hits a home run off of them. Are we really going to pretend like he had time to make a conscious decision here? It took like 3 seconds for the ref to get there and in that time Browne landed some 4-5 shots that all looked like they were aimed in the same place. Browne isn't responsible for Gonzaga's movements, nor is Gonzaga responsible for Browne's. If the first elbow landed legally and the rest of them were thrown to the same spot the first one landed, but suddenly Gonzaga moved then it isn't Browne's fault that Gonzaga wasn't in control of his own faculties.

What?

There isnt any instance where illegal shots are legal. Especially multiple ones. That's the bottom line. All you're doing is conceding that Browne did land multiple illegal elbows..you're only trying to make an arguement that somehow it's OK that he landed multiple illegal elbows because they were aimed at the same spot that he had landed a legal elbow(though i have to go back and see if ANY of the were legal) prior as if 5-6 elbows all count in the same movement. 5-6 elbows isnt a single motion. He didnt pull the trigger once, he did it several times...and most of his illegal elbows came after a clear illegal elbow. These arent involuntary movements. You're arguement really only works a bit for the first illegal elbow because by the second illegal elbow it's aimed at the same place where he just landed an illegal elbow.

Browne had no reason to stop..as he was getting away with it. The ref fucked up. However, if Browne got DQ'd as he should have been..it's his own fuckin fault for being reckless with his elbows. That is what he was. and that is his responsibility.

If the commish makes the right call and this becomes a NC. We are really going to blame Gonzaga for either being A)knocked out or B) turning his head and taking illegal elbows so Browne can't continue to smash his face?

The elbow that put Gonzaga on queer street was absolutely legal. Multiple elbows are not one single action, however we're talking about a span of maybe 3-4 seconds in a fight where you just hurt the other guy and might get a chance to get the stoppage. It's like when people ask "what was going through your mind in the heat of things?" and the person being interviewed is like "I wasn't really thinking about anything other than getting the job done". There isn't a whole lot of thought process going on there, it's mostly done on feeling and training and instinct.

Browne had no reason to stop because the fight didn't take place in slow motion and he wasn't exactly winding up to throw huge Hendo style tomahawk strikes. Several rapid elbows following one successful elbow in a very short amount of time as the ref is running in to stop the fight and you expect the guy to not only pause and think about not only what he's doing but where his next strike might land because his opponent may happen to move? Get the fuck out of here.

We have seen plenty of fighters control themselves in rapid flurrys to finish when the prey makes a slight turn and whatever they are throwing is no longer legal. It's very often how rocked fighters avoid getting finished. Also, the elbows from that position is already a thin gap between legal and illegal so Browne should have been smarter than to go machine gun ape shit from that position. As evident in the fight in question. He was simply reckless..Surely the ref is the biggest fuck up here but sorry, i expect 4 illegal strikes out of 5... or 3 illegal strikes out of 4 that ends a fight to be a DQ no matter when the solitary legal strike landed or how fast the offensive fighter decided to throw risky strikes that any idiot knows can go from barely legal to disgustingly/dangerously illegal in a nano second. It's just too much to let slide and you're really opening the door to a lot of acceptable foul play when multiple illegal elbows, especially to the back of the head are not worthy of a DQ.

We'll see how the commish rules on this.

I'm counting two, maybe three elbows out of a total of six that weren't legal, and those are inbetween legal shots at the start and finish. The first one definitely hit's along the side of the head, the second one is tricky, the third and fourth ones land to the back of the head for sure, and the fifth and sixth ones land on the right ear before the ref gets there. I don't see how two thirds of the shots in question being legal are negated by two illegal blows caused by one fighter slumping over.

http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2013/04/nevada-denies-gabriel-gonzagas-appeal-of-tuf-17-finale-loss

Quote :

An appeal filed earlier this month by Gabriel Gonzaga has been denied, according to his manager.