Interesting article about the Sonnen case

http://www.cagepotato.com/report-sonnen-has-been-undergoing-hormone-replacement-therapy-least-past-year-and-assumed-csac-knew

Quote :

CagesideSeats.com has an interesting story they scooped from Yahoo! Sports MMA reporter Dave Meltzer's paid subscription f4wonline message board that sheds some light on the Chael Sonnen PED case.

According to the story, Sonnen has been undergoing hormone replacement therapy since before his fight with Yushin Okami, which he reported to and was given clearance to fight by the California State Athletic Commission prior to the the bout. Because it is a permanent treatment Sonnen allegedly assumed his doctor prescribed required testosterone treatment would be on file, and thus never re-reported it to the commission.

Testosterone levels can drop off for various reasons, including age, hereditary reasons or because of stress the endocrine system is due to a number of variables, not limited to repeated weight fluctuation and dehydration caused by weight cutting.

Here's what Meltzer had to say about the case in the latest edition of his Wrestling Observer newsletter:
"Chael Sonnen's hearing before the California State Athletic Commission regarding testing positive for testosterone is scheduled for 12/2 in Sacramento. Josh Barnett will also be applying to get licensed on that date. The talk was Sonnen would argue based on being medically prescribed testosterone due to a low level in his system. The issue would be whether or not he informed the commission ahead of time, because in cases like that, at least in Nevada, you have to ask for an exemption well in advance, have the commission doctors and your doctors talk and get it approved, and you still can't have a higher than normal level in your system when being tested which requires additional lab work. Those type of exemptions being approved are rare."
CS dug a little further and came up with a conversation between Meltzer and UFC.com writer/German UFC commentator Oliver Copp on the F4WOnline messageboard

Here's what Copp had to say about the situation:
"It'll probably be a slap-on-the-wrist suspension until, say, February. Then CSAC can claim a victory over Sonnen for failing to declare while Sonnen will be fine at the same time and can do Ultimate Fighter with Bisping or fight, whatever comes first.
These are the facts, as best I can ascertain.
- Sonnen is on Hormone Replacement Therapy.
- HRT is a "permanent therapy" and not something you do for three months and then are done with it.
- When he fought Okami in LA, Sonnen declared it, jumped through hoops and did the entire shebang.
- CSAC approved it.
- Sonnen came back to fight in Cali again and, since HRT is a permanent therapy and in his case had been approved by CSAC before, he didn't think he'd have to jump through hoops AGAIN.
- Unbeknownst to him, CSAC had changed since his last fight in California and the new commission wanted to turn over a new leaf and be nothing like the commission of old.
Opinion part:
In other words, Sonnen got caught in a political crossfire. If he's guilty of anything, he's guilty of being a dumbass and assuming, instead of going through the process. I will cut him some slack for being down with the flu leading up to the fight, with his main priority being getting better so he can get through the week and the fight.
A lot of guys who have cut weight from an early age develop testosterone deficiency. The exact mechanism isn't fully understood yet but dehydrating your body badly and rehydrating over an extended period of time increases the chances of doing damage to your endocrine system by as much as 5,000 percent.
After taking your hit, your levels are all over the place for an hour or two until they settle in a normal region. If they tested Sonnen during that time, his levels will have been WAY high."
And here's Meltzer's two cents:
"The problem is if you look at photos of Sonnen from fight to fight, you notice far bigger and more muscular for Marquardt & especially Silva as compared to all of his previous fights.
It's possible he has legit reasons for it. However, I do recall when the subject came up in 2008 that he California commission said they had never approved of anyone using hormone replacement therapy and gave the indication they likely never would because of the ease for abuse. Obviously that's pre Okami fight and the guy in charge of the commission changed to someone not nearly as much of a hardass on the drug issue.
But in OVW and WWE pre-Benoit, everyone was able to do that as a gimmick, get the prescriptions and it was a gimmick. Even after, when WWE cracked down, there were a few exemptions and the doctor in charge felt every single one was shady.
WWE now will not hire someone with that prescription, or allow any prescriptions for test, as company policy."
Copp then pointed a finger at Matt Hughes, accusing the former UFC welterweight champion as being guilty of possible unreported testosterone use:
"Look at Matt Hughes physically in the Serra fight and then the Gracie fight. Compare that to how he looked in the Almeida fight. Guess when he started going on HRT.
I think this is all somewhat murky water, and I sincerely feel that if Sonnen has ANY case, the Cali commission will want this to go away without much in the way of coverage."
We won't have long to wait to hear what Sonnen's defense will be. His CSAC hearing is set for December 2.

The plot gets so much thicker than this -

Quote :

Sonnen fought Nate Marquardt in Nevada this past February, after the Okami fight, so I called Keith Kizer, Executive Director of the Nevada commission. According to Kizer, Sonnen never applied or was approved for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). Not in February or any of his previous fights in Nevada. Before the Marquardt fight, he applied and was approved for Soma/carisprodol (a muscle relaxer recently banned completely by WWE because it can cause intoxication while others don't and are more effective) for sleep as long as he didn't take it the night before and doxycyline (an antibiotic) for acne.

The only name fighter who has applied for and gotten the exemption is Dan Henderson, who tests at below-normal levels even while receiving the TRT. Any fighters undergoing TRT in Nevada still need to test as levels where a fighter without an exemption would pass. Also, the rules were recently changed so that fighters who are undergoing TRT because their natural production of testosterone was damaged due to previous steroid abuse would not be granted an exemption. As Meltzer noted, in WWE, wrestlers can get TRT approved if they damaged their natural production through steroid abuse, but nobody undergoing TRT will be hired.

Since Matt Hughes started TRT after his last fight in Nevada and doesn't have any fights scheduled there at the moment, he didn't come up.

It's one thing to claim that he didn't do an interview that was obviously him, but how the heck did Sonnen think he'd be bulletproof here? Why didn't he apply for the exemption in Nevada in February if he was really undergoing TRT since at least the previous October? I highly doubt that he just stopped his TRT: He would've crashed, not won a fight against a top level opponent, much less have a fight so exciting it got the fight of the night bonus.

http://www.cagesideseats.com/2010/11/17/1820174/nsac-rebuts-sonnens-claims-of-approved-testosterone-use

A lot of holes in the story there for Sonnen, and a lot of weird angles on the usage issue from other fighters, medical and WWE. This was the type of explanation I thought would come out to cover this.

Like I told B last night on the chat. He will get a reduced sentence, nothing more, nothing less. Out 6-9 months. Bank on that.

If he knew and they knew? Then they should not have sanctioned the fight. Blame on the CSAC. If a complete bullshit lie? Then fuck him and the steroid injected horse he rode in on....

Andrew the Raider King wrote:

If he knew and they knew? Then they should not have sanctioned the fight. Blame on the CSAC. If a complete bullshit lie? Then fuck him and the steroid injected horse he rode in on....

I don't know if anyone else is getting this but there seems to be something wrong with your signature coding Andrew. Below all of your post I see errors beyond just your post area in the reply text box, buttons, etc with no sig, just code.

Can anyone see my message I just posted above this one?

GDPofDRC wrote:

Can anyone see my message I just posted above this one?

I can see what you wrote and then a link for a gif with a guy riding a...fire extinguisher?

I see andrews message, now the coding for his sig is gone, my message under his is gone but my sig from that message is part of his message, then my next message is normal.

If he was prescibed for low levels he is still guilty because he had high levels not normal levels.

redvexx8 wrote:

If he was prescibed for low levels he is still guilty because he had high levels not normal levels.

If he was tested right after his dose he would test high though.

sonnen is a fucking crook and I stand by it.

sokolkevin wrote:

sonnen is a fucking crook and I stand by it.

man, you must hate a lot of mma fighters then...

This whole issue will never actually have a definitive conclusion in terms of whether or not his high levels were due to illegal use or prescribed HRT. All that will happen is the CSAC will issue a small suspension and the UFC will spin it as though Sonnen was wrongfully accused and did not cheat. Either way, does it really even matter? I for one want to see Silva vs. Sonnen II and dont think any hormone replacement or steroids will affect the outcome. Sonnen did as well as he did because of a stylistic advantage and then got subbed because of his, well, poor sub defense. I see the second fight going the same way and hinging on whether or not Silva can sub him again from bottom. Sonnen is likely telling half truths and no one will really know the answer to this.

I think a roid free version of Sonnen stands no chance against Silva and defiantly would not have dropped in the first round.

The only reason some one would have low testosterone to begin with is is either
A. Old Age or
B. Previous steroid abuse.

Or in Randy's case both lol

I don't buy his excuse or the circumstances involved. I think he uses the steroids for an advantage. And the whole NSAC thing from the Nate fight? I don't think he really assumed CSAC would carryover any kind of exemption. He has been sitting on this as insurance. Politician to the core.

I believe him. He's been cutting weight since highschool. As I suspected, Randy Couture, Dan Henderson and Matt Hughes all undergo the same therapy.

redvexx8 wrote:

I think a roid free version of Sonnen stands no chance against Silva and defiantly would not have dropped in the first round.

The only reason some one would have low testosterone to begin with is is either
A. Old Age or
B. Previous steroid abuse.

Or in Randy's case both lol

Weight cutting damages the ability to produce test as well.

If this is a non rehab therapy for him, why was it not disclosed for his fight in Nevada is a question I ask. Did he pick and choose when to use the roids or omit the disclosure in an attempt to avoid a situation like the one he is in now?

GDPofDRC wrote:

If this is a non rehab therapy for him, why was it not disclosed for his fight in Nevada is a question I ask. Did he pick and choose when to use the roids or omit the disclosure in an attempt to avoid a situation like the one he is in now?

Maybe he was on therapy for his Nevada fight too but had normal levels at test time, or just wasn't tested at all.

killerofchicken wrote:

sokolkevin wrote:

sonnen is a fucking crook and I stand by it.

man, you must hate a lot of mma fighters then...

nah its just all the bullshit he talked and on top of it had the nerve to call lance armstrong a crook for doing the same thing. So he is a hypocritical piece of shit in my book. Its one thing to cheat its another to act like your a saint and call everyone else out in the process. Fuck Sonnen