Aoki's activity level.

I guess this is not unknown material here, but I was noticing how active Aoki has been in his career, and more notably how active he has been even as he has achieved a high standing in the sport.

Fought 5 times in 2006, "only" 3 times in 2007, but then fought 7 times in 2008. since then his work load has dropped a bit, but he is still much more active then high level guys here in the states, having fought 4 times in each 2009 and 2010.

And he is not out there fighting chumps. In 2008, he fought Cavalcante twice, Uno, Hansen, and Alvarez. 2009, Sakarai, Hansen, and Ribeiro. 2010, Gil, Kawajiri, and Aurelio.

its because of his activity level that he remains on top of the division, not his competition level. kinda like eddie. dont get me wrong those guys you mentioned are not chumps however they are not at the elite of the division. cavalcante just lost to thompson who isnt a top guy. uno got schooled in the ufc by 2nd string fighters there, after fighting hansen, hellboy went on to get a beatdown and ko'd by smaller fws. aurelio too got schooled in the ufc by second string lws. sakarai is a 3rd string ww and aoki couldnt even make it out of the first (same year bj went 4 rounds with the #1 ww). gil has been his one fight against a true elite fighter however in that fight we saw him get dominated and not really even have a chance. aoki is a dangerous lw to many but not to truely high level lws with a good ground game. i see gil,kenny,edgar,maynard,bj and probably even sotiroplous beating him

My opinion : Cavalcante and Thompson are both top guys that would be fighting for the title in the UFC, and if you watched that fight you'd know JZ got jobbed big time.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

My opinion : Cavalcante and Thompson are both top guys that would be fighting for the title in the UFC, and if you watched that fight you'd know JZ got jobbed big time.

i agree he did get robbed. also during the fight i think even gil said that josh should just play it safe and grind out the win on the ground instead of trying to be agressive and fight jz's fight. with that said i dont think either would be near a title fight in the ufc. to be honest josh's wrestling could probably beat aoki for the dream title but i dont se him cracking the ufcs top 5

throwdownfight1 wrote:

its because of his activity level that he remains on top of the division, not his competition level. kinda like eddie. dont get me wrong those guys you mentioned are not chumps however they are not at the elite of the division. cavalcante just lost to thompson who isnt a top guy. uno got schooled in the ufc by 2nd string fighters there, after fighting hansen, hellboy went on to get a beatdown and ko'd by smaller fws. aurelio too got schooled in the ufc by second string lws. sakarai is a 3rd string ww and aoki couldnt even make it out of the first (same year bj went 4 rounds with the #1 ww). gil has been his one fight against a true elite fighter however in that fight we saw him get dominated and not really even have a chance. aoki is a dangerous lw to many but not to truely high level lws with a good ground game. i see gil,kenny,edgar,maynard,bj and probably even sotiroplous beating him

im sure u r aware that Aoki was completely controlling Sotiropoulos, one submission attempt after another, prior to the illegal groin strike by George.

captain organic wrote:

throwdownfight1 wrote:

its because of his activity level that he remains on top of the division, not his competition level. kinda like eddie. dont get me wrong those guys you mentioned are not chumps however they are not at the elite of the division. cavalcante just lost to thompson who isnt a top guy. uno got schooled in the ufc by 2nd string fighters there, after fighting hansen, hellboy went on to get a beatdown and ko'd by smaller fws. aurelio too got schooled in the ufc by second string lws. sakarai is a 3rd string ww and aoki couldnt even make it out of the first (same year bj went 4 rounds with the #1 ww). gil has been his one fight against a true elite fighter however in that fight we saw him get dominated and not really even have a chance. aoki is a dangerous lw to many but not to truely high level lws with a good ground game. i see gil,kenny,edgar,maynard,bj and probably even sotiroplous beating him

im sure u r aware that Aoki was completely controlling Sotiropoulos, one submission attempt after another, prior to the illegal groin strike by George.

yeah after that george even went on to get ko'd by tommy on tuf. with that said george has improved alot from their previous match up or his time in tuf

throwdownfight1 wrote:

captain organic wrote:

throwdownfight1 wrote:

its because of his activity level that he remains on top of the division, not his competition level. kinda like eddie. dont get me wrong those guys you mentioned are not chumps however they are not at the elite of the division. cavalcante just lost to thompson who isnt a top guy. uno got schooled in the ufc by 2nd string fighters there, after fighting hansen, hellboy went on to get a beatdown and ko'd by smaller fws. aurelio too got schooled in the ufc by second string lws. sakarai is a 3rd string ww and aoki couldnt even make it out of the first (same year bj went 4 rounds with the #1 ww). gil has been his one fight against a true elite fighter however in that fight we saw him get dominated and not really even have a chance. aoki is a dangerous lw to many but not to truely high level lws with a good ground game. i see gil,kenny,edgar,maynard,bj and probably even sotiroplous beating him

im sure u r aware that Aoki was completely controlling Sotiropoulos, one submission attempt after another, prior to the illegal groin strike by George.

yeah after that george even went on to get ko'd by tommy on tuf. with that said george has improved alot from their previous match up or his time in tuf

So George has improved alot, while Aoki, who has been far more active during that time, has not? prime example of guys in the UFC getting the benefit of the doubt, while non UFC guys are viewed as inherently inferior.

captain organic wrote:

throwdownfight1 wrote:

captain organic wrote:

throwdownfight1 wrote:

its because of his activity level that he remains on top of the division, not his competition level. kinda like eddie. dont get me wrong those guys you mentioned are not chumps however they are not at the elite of the division. cavalcante just lost to thompson who isnt a top guy. uno got schooled in the ufc by 2nd string fighters there, after fighting hansen, hellboy went on to get a beatdown and ko'd by smaller fws. aurelio too got schooled in the ufc by second string lws. sakarai is a 3rd string ww and aoki couldnt even make it out of the first (same year bj went 4 rounds with the #1 ww). gil has been his one fight against a true elite fighter however in that fight we saw him get dominated and not really even have a chance. aoki is a dangerous lw to many but not to truely high level lws with a good ground game. i see gil,kenny,edgar,maynard,bj and probably even sotiroplous beating him

im sure u r aware that Aoki was completely controlling Sotiropoulos, one submission attempt after another, prior to the illegal groin strike by George.

yeah after that george even went on to get ko'd by tommy on tuf. with that said george has improved alot from their previous match up or his time in tuf

So George has improved alot, while Aoki, who has been far more active during that time, has not? prime example of guys in the UFC getting the benefit of the doubt, while non UFC guys are viewed as inherently inferior.

know what i agree, although many are jumping on the george hype train im not for he hasnt fought the level of comp aoki has wether aokis wins or loses. but still thats why i said probably. not a sure thing. the ones that could beat aoki for sure would be the others mentioned of wich gil is not in the ufc. in another post i even mentioned how thompsons wrestling could probably even help grind out a dec win over aoki as well. he too isnt in the ufc. with that said i guess i take back on saying george could beat aoki but as for the rest in edgar, gil,kenny,maynard and bj, well they would beat aoki for sure. aoki is a top guy, just not at the elite level those guys are.

JZ was robbed, but neither would get to a Title shot in the UFC, Eddie and Gil probably would.

On Georgey and Aoki, George has improved a lot since that fight, a lot.

Why wouldn't they get shots? These guys have been top five potential for years.

To each his own, I see better guys in the UFC LW division

LA wrote:

JZ was robbed, but neither would get to a Title shot in the UFC, Eddie and Gil probably would.

On Georgey and Aoki, George has improved a lot since that fight, a lot.

If Thomson or JZ were given the fast track that many UFC fighters have enjoyed, then I could see either guy reeling off 3 in a row and getting a title shot.

George, I dunno, he has a KO loss hidden on his record since that fight, a couple wins over middle of the pack UFC guys, and is now 33. Gotta see how it plays out for him.

Maybe, I see both guys getting tripped up in that 3rd fight though, the UFC LW division is much stronger then people give it credit for., wouldn't mind em in the mix.

LA wrote:

Maybe, I see both guys getting tripped up in that 3rd fight though, the UFC LW division is much stronger then people give it credit for., wouldn't mind em in the mix.

I think most feel that LW is the UFC's 2nd best division.

Still, rare is the case when a title contendor needs to fight a top 3 in the division guy to get that shot.

I felt before people dogged it sometimes, now with the merger, it's pretty filthy adding Bendo, Pettis, Cerrone and Varner among a couple others.

The problem with LW in the UFC is that the division is so good world wide that as good as it is there is always a "ya but" factor with all the elite talented guys outside the division.

Give me the 10 best LWs not in the UFC

The ten best is a good question. I'll think that over. I haven't done a non-UFC ranking in a while so I don't have an off the cuff list. But There are around five guys who I think could be serious dangers to the UFC title and are "top ten level". I am mostly talking about the bolded fighters below. I think Thompson and JZ's ranking here do not reflect how good they really are. Below BJ Penn there is a significant amount of parity in the division.


1 Frank Edgar 100 UFC 1
2 B.J. Penn 91 UFC 2
3 Gilbert Melendez 90 Strikeforce 3
4 Gray Maynard 89 UFC 4
5 Shinya Aoki 83 DREAM 5
6 Eddie Alvarez 82 Bellator 6
7 Kenny Florian 79 UFC 7
8 Tatsuya Kawajiri 61 DREAM 8
9 Sean Sherk 55 UFC 10
10 George Sotiropoulos 51 UFC 9
11 Evan Dunham 47 UFC 12
12 Jim Miller 45 UFC 11
13 Takanori Gomi 40 UFC 13
14 Ben Henderson 36 WEC 14
15 Mizuto Hirota 31 K-1 15
16 Josh Thomson 29 Strikeforce 21
17 Joe Stevenson 27 UFC 17
18 Tyson Griffin 27 UFC 16
19 Gesias Cavalcante 21 Strikeforce 19
20 Kurt Pellegrino 17 UFC 18
21 Diego Sanchez 17 UFC 20
22 Clay Guida 13 UFC 24
23 Melvin Guillard 12 UFC 23
24 Kazunori Yokota 10 K-1 25
24 Sam Stout

But not as much outside that UFC LW division as you'd think, why didn't u highlight Aoki?

There are a lot of guys not on the top 25 which could be, such as Toby Imada, Pat Curran, KJ Noons*(despite his movement to WW) even with his losses Roger Huerta, Satoru Kitaoka, Ishida and some others.

Top 6
No order.

Eddie
Gil
Thomson
JZ
Aoki
Kamajiri

Very good top 6.

Noons if he moves back.

Guys like Beerbohm, Huerta, Curran, Evangelista, Healy could be trouble at this weight. Ribiero, Aurelio, Imada, Ishida, let's see how Wilcox fares vs Shaolin.

I'm sure im missing a couple guys.

Plenty of talent out there.

LA wrote:

But not as much outside that UFC LW division as you'd think, why didn't u highlight Aoki?

Because while I feel he has extreme talent in grappling, and could potentially "Werdum" a UFC LW, especially Maynard, I think Melendez exposed the way to beat him in a cage.

Blanco, is another dangerous looking 155.

wow this back and forth ufc nutting and ufc hating still dont include antonio mckee on it. that says alot

He is in the UFC so he doesn't really apply to this discussion, further, he is as old as Brett Favre and making his promotional debut. Forgive us this glaring omission...