Prime Lennox Lewis vs Prime Rocky Marciano

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

Everyone knows Bowe ducked him. He even relinquished the title. Lewis had already beaten him in the Olympics and would've done the same as a pro.

What are your memories of that time period? Or are you going by popular opinion of what happened?

KrazyHorseBennett wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

He wasn't motivated in his 2 losses. Those fights were lost before the fight even started. So who did you vote for?

OK, so Lennox is extraordinarily vulnerable in a second way. He isn't even disciplined enough to always show up in top shape. Not something anyone ever accused Marciano of.

I'm passing on the vote.

Why? so you don't get ridiculed for voting Marciano? Anyway, the question I was asking was if both fought their best not for their whole career. The Lewis that lost has nothing to do with this fight as he wasn't at his best then.

LOL, yeah being ridiculed by anonymous interweb dudes is really troubling. What are you six years old?

I don't vote on things like this because the concept carries no weight.

Lewis is more vulnerable to big punchers than any othe heavyweight champion excpet maybe Floyd Patterson.

You make a topic saying that Riddick Bowe on his day was almost unstoppable yet you play down Lewis. Bowe was too terrified to face Lewis.

I don't believe that Bowe feared Lewis. I believe Rock Newman was to blame for all of that trashcan business. I honestly believe Newman thought he was building the fight, down the road, to become 10x bigger than it would have been. His relative inexperience in the sport showed that things rarely go according to plan when your plans are for the long-term. You have to strike when the iron is hot.

I just don't think these guys "fear" each other very often in a way that gets them to dodge a fight. Not at the tip-top of the sport. It's almost always something else is my guess. Now do great fighters feel some kinds of fear? You betcha. It's what gives them an edge. Ray Robinson talked about it and Jose Torres wrote eloquently about it in Fire and Fear.

KrazyHorseBennett wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

Everyone knows Bowe ducked him. He even relinquished the title. Lewis had already beaten him in the Olympics and would've done the same as a pro.

What are your memories of that time period? Or are you going by popular opinion of what happened?

I remember Lewis wanting the fight and his management saying Bowe was ducking him.

this is a bad match up for rocky because of the size difference. usually i wouldnt pull that card but lewis is one of the few big men that could move well and had good speed. could marciano KO him? yes of course. in a 15 rounder i might give the edge to rocky but if we are talking about a 12 rounder then i will give the advantage to lewis. lewis is quick and hits hard. i wouldnt be surprised to see the fight stopped on cuts.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

He wasn't motivated in his 2 losses. Those fights were lost before the fight even started. So who did you vote for?

OK, so Lennox is extraordinarily vulnerable in a second way. He isn't even disciplined enough to always show up in top shape. Not something anyone ever accused Marciano of.

I'm passing on the vote.

I like how Marble refuses to vote because he doesnt want to vote against an ATG of the Past to a modern era fighter. Im very sure some modern fighter (the great one) would (especially at HW) smash the ones of the past.

I hate how Modern fighters wont ever get a nod in a fight against old timers (from boxing junkies like Marble)

I would take young Tyson over Marciano any day of the week (consider that i strongly believe Tyson was one of the most overrated fighters ever)

and im sure you would pick floyd over robinson the feather champ over pep pasqual over archie moore and roy jones jr over rocky also..tarver who beat jones over charles..ward over billy conn and glen johnson over tunney.

marble shame on you for thinking pep could cut the mustard today. greb who im sure sergio martinez would beat with ease or even dare think a moore tunney charles or marciano could beat roy joines jr..shame on you marble for thinking that...gee of course the cruizer champ will crush dempsey and mosley would crush armstrong and alexander dumps barney ross...marble how dare you think that...dam dont you know anything about boxing...

dmar5143 wrote:

and im sure you would pick floyd over robinson the feather champ over pep pasqual over archie moore and roy jones jr over rocky also..tarver who beat jones over charles..ward over billy conn and glen johnson over tunney.

Nope, I dont even think Floyd handles some of the guys in his era (SSM at 135, Margarito prime and Williams). Ward has a long way to go and I believe by the time hes done, he will be considered an ATG and he'll get his cred over past ATG. Nah I dont fuck with the likes of Robinson, Pep and others of that sort, Ive seen them... these guys were great. My point was about Modern All time greats would do a lot better against past All time greats than some of you Past era fighter huggers give credit for.

Dont try to mock my intelligence.. Tarver and Johnson ppffttt get out of here.

dmar5143 wrote:

marble shame on you for thinking pep wont cut the mustart today. greb who im sure sergio martinez would beat with ease or even dare think a moore tunney charles or marciano could beat roy joines jr..shame on you marble for thinking that...gee of course the cruizer champ will crush dempsey and mosley would crush armstrong and alexander dumps barney ross...marble how dare you think that...dam dont you know anything about boxing...

Hopkins crushes LaMatta and Greb, Jones could take those ATG at 175, not all of them, but he would do fine. Jones isnt relevant over 175. Im very certain Pacquaio could match up blow for blow with Armstrong.

whats modern..a guy like ali who one the title almost 50 years ago..holmes almost 35 years ago..hagler 30 plus years duran 40 plus years...modern is what..10 15 years..jones was koed by tarver and johnson and is hyped as a today modern great..floyd hyed a modern great.many pac ..what great does he beat at welter..hearns leonard robinson mickey walker..at feather..pep saddler sanchez..at bantom..jofre fighting harada..at lighweight ambers armstrong duran benny leanard..ali and thoses guys ARE old timers..modern is now the past 15 years..or is the old guys from the 1880s..

case closed hopkins crushes greb..jones is 185 fight day..weigh in the day of the fight..then hes fighting marciano..roy goes out in 2 rounds..moore charles tunney conn mike spinks laughrahn whos jones beat..why all of them of course since hopkins crushes greb..

of course roy clobbers sam langford also..

dmar5143 wrote:

whats modern..a guy like ali who one the title almost 50 years ago..holmes almost 35 years ago..hagler 30 plus years duran 40 plus years...modern is what..10 15 years..jones was koed by tarver and johnson and is hyped as a today modern great..floyd hyed a modern great.many pac ..what great does he beat at welter..hearns leonard robinson mickey walker..at feather..pep saddler sanchez..at bantom..jofre fighting harada..at lighweight ambers armstrong duran benny leanard..ali and thoses guys ARE old timers..modern is now the past 15 years..or is the old guys from the 1880s..

RJJ was past his peak when he lost. At his age his body couldn't handle putting on that much muscle then losing it again. He should've stayed at heavyweight and fought Chris Byrd or retired.

I could see RJJ at his peak beating any ATG at Light Heavyweight.

I think Guys from the 90's to now are more of modern day fighters (Im an 89 baby). I think Era should go by decades.

I know where youre heading at and Im not saying every modern great would out match a passed great. i know Floyd isnt a top 10 welter all time. We've had a great set of Welter greats in the pasr. The guy could probably take Arguello at 130. Paquaio looks amazing at 135/140, he would make a great fight with a fighter like Pryor.

Guys like Wlad, Vitali, Ward, Hops, Jones, MAB, EM, JMM, R Marquez, Calderon, Flomo, Pacquaio and top fighters like that would all stand a chance against old timers from any era.

Jones was clearly not the untouchble fighter he once was when he fought Johnson and Tarver. Jones was a purely athletic fighter, no real boxing skill, but everything based on his physical abilities. He declined at 33 (I think when he started to get Knocked out), after he aged, his physical gifts werent there just made him a sitting duck.

he was koed in his prime...exuses excuses..by the way he also lost the first fight with tarver..he was given a christmas gift early..

manny pac was what..great at 135..for ONE fight against a who..manny is a all time great but in the divisions hes fought..118 does he beat any top 10 bantam.nope.at 126 any top ten feather.nope again..at 135 nope again..doo you remember how he looked and fought at that weight class..at 147 you admitted nope..and hes regaurded and rightly so maybe as the beswt today..

dmar5143 wrote:

he was koed in his prime...exuses excuses..by the way he also lost the first fight with tarver..he was given a christmas gift early..

not an excues, that Jones wasnt the untouchable fighter he once was.... Im mean thats pretty obvious to see.

dmar5143 wrote:

manny pac was what..great at 135..for ONE fight against a who..manny is a all time great but in the divisions hes fought..118 does he beat any top 10 bantam.nope.at 126 any top ten feather.nope again..at 135 nope again..doo you remember how he looked and fought at that weight class..at 147 you admitted nope..and hes regaurded and rightly so maybe as the beswt today..

He looked amazing at 135 and 140. he may of fought limited opposition, but he had no choice considerin where the money was at. Pacquaio may not have a ton of cred at those classes because he wasnt showcased, but his talent and progression speaks by itself. His physical ability gives any ATG fighter from 130 to 140 real problems. Pacquaio was raw in all the weight classes he fought before he hit the 130 pound division.

My main arguement is that the huge HWs (well not really today), but guys like Lennox, Holyfield, Wlad, Vitali, Tyson could handle themself against guys like Ali, Holmes, Frazier, Louis, Foreman. Not saying they would win, but these fights would not be any thing close to a mismatch.

You can't put on 25-40 pounds of muscle at his age and then lose it again and expect to be at the same level. Going to heavyweight was his greatest accomplishment but also his down fall.

Diego408 wrote:

dmar5143 wrote:

marble shame on you for thinking pep wont cut the mustart today. greb who im sure sergio martinez would beat with ease or even dare think a moore tunney charles or marciano could beat roy joines jr..shame on you marble for thinking that...gee of course the cruizer champ will crush dempsey and mosley would crush armstrong and alexander dumps barney ross...marble how dare you think that...dam dont you know anything about boxing...

Hopkins crushes LaMatta and Greb, Jones could take those ATG at 175, not all of them, but he would do fine. Jones isnt relevant over 175. Im very certain Pacquaio could match up blow for blow with Armstrong.

Hopkins crushes? Really? Famous Philadelphia boxing promoter russel peltz thinks ten different 1970's Philadelphia Middles and light heavies take Bhop. Guys like cyclone hart and Bennie Brisco and the worm and Billy Douglas etc.

Jones couldn't even Make 175 on fight day. hed have been fighting heavyweights but if he could men like Freddie Roach and Teddy Atlas and Manny Steward think Roy gets blown away by guys like Ezzard and Moore and Harold Johnson and a series of others.

I think Manny,who would have 15 pounds on Armstrong on fight night, probably stays with Armstrong.

This would be a massacre, Lewis would beat Marciano into a bloody pulp.

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

You can't put on 25-40 pounds of muscle at his age and then lose it again and expect to be at the same level. Going to heavyweight was his greatest accomplishment but also his down fall.

Except it was more like 5-10. Jones just didn't dehydrate for the weigh-in.

No it wasn't. He said in an interview that he put on about 26 pounds of muscle from his last fight.