Sugar Ray Robinson film in the works

4445Frank wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

bigbeastcardinal12 wrote:

You guys are making it sound like they can't watch a film of a fight and practice for a few weeks to nail it. Hollywood can do anything in a film and it will look good.

Nah, not even close. A great fighter's rhythm, violence of movement, reflexes, speed, balance etc cannot be duplicated on film by someone with a few months training. It can only be imitated....badly. The inability of the actor to complete a sustained, one view shot for minutes at a time makes this obvious. Fight films ALWAYS have to use cutaways, lots of different angles, no sustained shot from one view. Why? Because they know the actor can't pull it off.

It's not exactly an insult to say one could not expect otherwise. Look at my signature of about six seconds of Alexis Arguello. There isn't an actor on the planet who with a few months training could mimic everything Arguello does in just those few seconds. The spin off the ropes (while perfectly balanced), the slip to the left (taking two steps while doing so), the slip to the right (taking two more steps to optimize distance) and then the laser beam straight, perfectly balanced and perfectly judged one-two.

Fight films are invariably highly stylized. They have to be. It doesn't make them bad movies or not entertaining, but never for a second do you wonder if you're watching real footage.

It's not just boxing either. I mean can you imagine an actor, even one who played say HS basketball really well, being able to play even 2-3 minutes of full court basketball from one point of view, put on film, somehow convincing you on film he really was Michael Jordan? It would take all sorts o different, brief shots to make it remotely credible and still not for a second would you wonder if that was really jordan. Heck they could superimpose his head onto the actor's body and it wouldn't fool you.

You're right, Marble. However, there are some fight films that do justice to the fighters they cover.

Robert De Niro could not duplicate the jab of Jake La Motta. He could, however, train for a year and put on a great performance in the ring and out. His martial arts training helped out a great deal as well. I thought "Cinderella Man" was choreographed beautifully. Even the cheap but effective “Undisputed” with Wesley Snipes was done well. “Carl Weathers” (Apollo Crede) was also an excellent show fighter. I thought Carl and Sly did a wonderful job in Rocky & Rocky II (Sure, at some points, you could see they missed each other by a mile but for the most part they looked like professionals.) Also, at some points in Rocky II, anyone can see that a sane ref would’ve stopped the fight (LOL).

Cutaways and everything you mentioned are necessary to make the action look authentic. These are not professional fighters but my point is, with editing, they can be made to look close enough so that an untrained eye fails to notice the difference.
Nobody will argue that Ray Robinson can be duplicated, though he can be imitated well enough by a determined director, a new talent (No known actor could play him as far as I know) and a good choreographer (Angelo Dundee did well in “The Cinderella Man.”) to make a great movie. That said, I don’t think it will be done.

There are also movies based on great fighters where it is evident that the director had no idea or concern over the fight scenes. The production, “Ali” was a travesty in and out of the ring. The fight scenes looked like something out of an amateur, tough man competition. I have no comment on the performances.

My overall thoughts are that the Robinson movie will be a disaster. They will hire a known black actor (Please God, save me from Will Smith) and put little trouble in the fight scenes. Large studios do not always make the most intelligent decisions. Blinded by money, these major studios miss the most important factor behind any great movie. “Passion.” Bullshit (which is what the majors turn out) can be devoid of passion. A real movie cannot.

Justice in the sense of conveying a message I completely agree. Carl Weathers, being a world class athlete himself, came the closest of anyone I've seen at actually looking like a fighter. But Stallone couldn't keep up with him so the fight scenes aren't persuasive as reality. Doesn't mean those movies weren't wonderful, they were. But again you never thought you were watching a real fight. Paul Newman, and particularly Court Shepard, did a marvelous hob in Somebody up There Likes Me in conveying the message that these were savage fights between very tough men. But again, it never looked real. That is not a complaint or even a criticism. Hollywood is a fantasy machine, not a reality one,

Ill take a great actor like Frank said and rely on teaching him the basics and getting a guy like Dundee to play out the fight any day. Will Smith is getting too old for a young Ray role, but I hear he has a kid who knows Jackie Chan and he has acting experience.

bigbeastcardinal12 wrote:

Ill take a great actor like Frank said and rely on teaching him the basics and getting a guy like Dundee to play out the fight any day. Will Smith is getting too old for a young Ray role, but I hear he has a kid who knows Jackie Chan and he has acting experience.

LOL

Marble, what about Raging Bull?

DARKNESS!

4445Frank wrote:

Marble, what about Raging Bull?

I don't know what it is but Scorcese just doesn't move me at all. I know it's supposed to be a great movie and I am assured by people who know such things that technically it is. Like almost all Scorcese's work he takes one message and pounds away. I got that Jake was a neanderthal after 15 minutes. Two hours later I was still being shown he was a neanderthal. Yeah I got that. As for the fight scenes they are often either shots from above the waist or of only one fighter at a time. He uses gimmicks like slow-motion etc too. It's enormously stylized in the ring.

I know it is blasphemy but it isn't one of the top ten fight movies I'd choose to watch. Not when Champion or Rocky or Body and Soul or Fat City or The Champ or the Set-Up or the Harder They Fall or Rocky III or Requiem for a Heavyweight or Somebody Up There Likes Me or Gladiator are out there.

Gladiator hahaha damn you really hated Raging Bull hahaha

did you like DiggsTown?

Birdofthad wrote:

Gladiator hahaha damn you really hated Raging Bull hahaha

did you like DiggsTown?

Yup, I LOVED Diggstown. That movie didn't even pretend to be real.

I do not possess an untrained eye.