Favorite Fighter(s) : Arguello, Finito, Duran, Saad Muhammad Posts : 4040 Join date : 2010-05-16
Subject: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:36 pm
I stumbled on this fascinating British Documentary that involves going over highlights of past champions with Mike Tyson in 1985 or so. The extent of Tyson's knowledge about the history of boxing is astonishing. The give and take between Tyson and the host is wonderful. Tyson at his personable best. Here is his take on some past champions.
Jack Johnson-A genius who probably couldn't fight today. Hist style would get him thrown out of the sport as boring.
Jack Dempsey-Unmatched ferocity. Immense skill. His size wouldn't prevent him from dominating in Tyson's day.
Gene Tunney-A master boxer, but no Jack Dempsey.
Joe Louis-Probably the best, Ali included. His ring smarts, calmness and punching accuracy made him who he was. Tyson was asked about the "Bum of the Month Club." His answer? Most of the guys even in a top era like the 1960's and 1970's had they fought Joe Louis they would have been considered bums too.
Jersey Joe Walcott-A great fighter. To have that physique and that desire at 37 speaks volumes.
Rocky Marciano-When asked if Marciano was dirty Tyson answers "It isn't a dance in there." Asked if Marciano was tool small his response "You just don't know." Cus D'amato said the way to beat Rock was to crowd him. Tyson laughingly then says "Try to convince a fighter that crowding Marciano is a good idea."
Floyd Patterson-The fastest hands of any heavyweight ever. Tyson's technical understanding is marvelous.
Muhammad Ali- When you watch him fight Sonny Liston they look like fighters from two different times. He oohs and ahhs repeatedly over Ali's movement.
It's a wonderful show. I was shocked when near the end the British host asked Tyson about British heavyweights and Tyson responded that when he thought of British fighters he thought of men like Owen Moran and Ted Kid Lewis. The host was stunned as those two men were pre 1920. Tyson spoke authoritatively about their careers and styles. Really, really a student. Tyson focuses relentlessly on the mental aspects of fighters and the sport.
If you have the time it's fun.
Last edited by marbleheadmaui on Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
Birdofthad Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Ken shamrock, Frank Shamrock, Guy Mezger, Pete Williams, you get it Lions Den Posts : 17542 Join date : 2009-07-19 Age : 37 Location : D Town
Subject: Re: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:44 pm
great post, not surprised they say he used to watch endless amounts of fights at Cus' Tyson may no be book smart but the man knows boxing
Subject: Re: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:46 pm
All of Tyson's close people were serious students of the game and apparently he paid attention to them. Cus...Jacobs & Cayton knew boxing history, didn't they?
powerpuncher Green Belt
Posts : 635 Join date : 2010-05-14
Subject: Re: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:05 pm
i will have to watch that when i have time but that is impressive that tyson has such a knowledge of the history of boxing
Wolfgangsta Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Conor McGregor, Machida, Jon Jones, Ronda Rousey Posts : 18955 Join date : 2009-07-15 Location : USA
Subject: Re: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:42 am
The guy is equally insightful on MMA and has the same passion for that sport as well. He is a fight student.
marbleheadmaui Red Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Arguello, Finito, Duran, Saad Muhammad Posts : 4040 Join date : 2010-05-16
Subject: Re: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:53 am
powerpuncher wrote:
i will have to watch that when i have time but that is impressive that tyson has such a knowledge of the history of boxing
It really is nice to see isn't it? I mean Owen-freaking-Moran???????
hardcoreBEE24 Purple Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Thomas Hearns Posts : 1285 Join date : 2009-07-16 Location : Massapequa Park, NY
Subject: Re: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:15 am
Tyson didn't go to junior high, high school or college. He went to Catskill Preparatory. Cus was the Dean and Rooney, Atlas and a host of others were the teachers. Before Tyson went to prison all he did was eat, sleep and shit fighting. He came from nothing, and if one knows Brownsville in the 70's and 80's you know that he came from an absolute war zone. There was nothing to do in Catskill besides boxing. Tyson had a penchant for violence physical contact, boxing gave him an outlet, in particular boxing and watching fights in an isolated area with a host of others to fight with. The more I hear Tyson talk about the sport and the more I read how other fighters and trainers felt about his skills from 87-90 I really get the feeling that he just got burned out and said "To hell with this" when the 90's came around. He might have truly been an all time great had he had a better corner and team in the 90's. There also should have been more discipline on him when he was in his late teens. Cus D'mato should have been more interested in making him a better man, not just an excellent fighter. If you don't know how or you're not ready to handle the fame and the fortune you might as well never get into the fame and fortune business. More lessons in class would have suited Tyson well.
Tobe06 Orange Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Ali Posts : 357 Join date : 2010-08-18 Location : Ottawa, Canada
Subject: Re: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:30 am
Say what you like about Mike, there's no denying the guy has a boxing Ph.D. and, to my mind, is one of the most interesting characters of our time.
dmar5143 Purple Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : marciano pep robinson greb manny pac Posts : 1619 Join date : 2010-05-12 Age : 81 Location : charlotte nc
Subject: Re: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:30 am
hardcore good post..the only thing i differ with is cus did spend plenty of time preparing mike to be a man and to make the correct honest decsions in life..cus did combine lifes learning lessons and how to grow as a person along with boxing skills that were taught ..tyson just droped the ball.. marble thanks for this clip..tyson i enjoy when he talks boxing cause hes very intelligent and a serious student of the games history as well as a respected historian..
hardcoreBEE24 Purple Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Thomas Hearns Posts : 1285 Join date : 2009-07-16 Location : Massapequa Park, NY
Subject: Re: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:43 am
dmar5143 wrote:
hardcore good post..the only thing i differ with is cus did spend plenty of time preparing mike to be a man and to make the correct honest decsions in life..cus did combine lifes learning lessons and how to grow as a person along with boxing skills that were taught ..tyson just droped the ball.. marble thanks for this clip..tyson i enjoy when he talks boxing cause hes very intelligent and a serious student of the games history as well as a respected historian..
Recognizing Tyson's behavior towards women would have been something Cus should have taken more seriously. I understand that hindsight is 20/20 but what I think Cus failed to remember was how he got Tyson in the first place. This kid was a violent menace. Atlas talks candidly about approaching Cus and telling him about Mike's behavior. Cus gave Tyson a baseball bat to "beat off the women" once he became champion. I think Cus in a way got too close to Tyson. No one ever wants to believe that their kid is bad, they just feel that he's misunderstood and I think that was the case with the D'matos. The signs were there I just think they loved him too much to believe what might happen.
captainanddew Brown Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Ricky Burns Posts : 2946 Join date : 2010-05-22 Age : 47 Location : Richmond, Virginia
Subject: Re: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:23 am
Tyson is a student of boxing. He also seemed to be very interested in history in general. A very flawed, but unbelievably interesting human being.
hardcoreBEE24 Purple Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Thomas Hearns Posts : 1285 Join date : 2009-07-16 Location : Massapequa Park, NY
Subject: Re: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:25 am
captainanddew wrote:
Tyson is a student of boxing. He also seemed to be very interested in history in general. A very flawed, but unbelievably interesting human being.
From what I've read most of that came during his stretch in Indiana lock up.
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:23 pm
wow, great find Marble.
marbleheadmaui Red Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Arguello, Finito, Duran, Saad Muhammad Posts : 4040 Join date : 2010-05-16
Subject: Re: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:55 pm
hardcoreBEE24 wrote:
Tyson didn't go to junior high, high school or college. He went to Catskill Preparatory. Cus was the Dean and Rooney, Atlas and a host of others were the teachers. Before Tyson went to prison all he did was eat, sleep and shit fighting. He came from nothing, and if one knows Brownsville in the 70's and 80's you know that he came from an absolute war zone. There was nothing to do in Catskill besides boxing. Tyson had a penchant for violence physical contact, boxing gave him an outlet, in particular boxing and watching fights in an isolated area with a host of others to fight with. The more I hear Tyson talk about the sport and the more I read how other fighters and trainers felt about his skills from 87-90 I really get the feeling that he just got burned out and said "To hell with this" when the 90's came around. He might have truly been an all time great had he had a better corner and team in the 90's. There also should have been more discipline on him when he was in his late teens. Cus D'mato should have been more interested in making him a better man, not just an excellent fighter. If you don't know how or you're not ready to handle the fame and the fortune you might as well never get into the fame and fortune business. More lessons in class would have suited Tyson well.
Good point.
marbleheadmaui Red Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Arguello, Finito, Duran, Saad Muhammad Posts : 4040 Join date : 2010-05-16
Subject: Re: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:56 pm
Ali_1748 wrote:
wow, great find Marble.
Do you recognize the host?
OU Administrator
Favorite Fighter(s) : Diaz Bros, Wandy, Ace, Hendo, JDS, Lima Bros,Uncle Creepy, long live Iceman Posts : 43280 Join date : 2009-07-15 Age : 38 Location : Lawton, Oklahoma
Subject: Re: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:03 pm
I remember watching the movie "Tyson" and was very impressed by how Tyson studied film on the past greats. I had no idea until I saw that movie. I really enjoyed that movie.
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:09 pm
hardcoreBEE24 wrote:
The more I hear Tyson talk about the sport and the more I read how other fighters and trainers felt about his skills from 87-90 I really get the feeling that he just got burned out and said "To hell with this" when the 90's came around.
I think more than anything Tyson was a victim of his own success. You said that he came up in a war zone... and by the time he was 21 he was wildly famous and had everyone telling him yes to everything. He's gone on record a bunch of times saying he didn't know how to act and could take whatever he wanted. Even in the video he talked about how Jack Johnson "lived like a champion"...and not the other greats. He was just a young troubled kid inside of an amazingly gifted athlete who didn't have anyone to keep him in check and had everything given to him too soon.
hardcoreBEE24 wrote:
He might have truly been an all time great had he had a better corner and team in the 90's. There also should have been more discipline on him when he was in his late teens. Cus D'mato should have been more interested in making him a better man, not just an excellent fighter. If you don't know how or you're not ready to handle the fame and the fortune you might as well never get into the fame and fortune business. More lessons in class would have suited Tyson well.
Cus did his part to help educate Tyson on being a better man. He probably let Tyson get away too much, but Tyson was his prized pupil. He's a trainer, not a life coach. Tyson should have had other people in his life supporting him. Unfortunately everybody he knew from an early age used and abused him one way or another, and a lot of the blame goes on Tyson himself. Tyson earned his fame and fortune the hard way...whether he knows how to act or not can't take that away. Thankfully he was a boxer and not a politician.
Great videos. Had never seen them.
hardcoreBEE24 Purple Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Thomas Hearns Posts : 1285 Join date : 2009-07-16 Location : Massapequa Park, NY
Subject: Re: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:51 pm
Gumby wrote:
I think more than anything Tyson was a victim of his own success. You said that he came up in a war zone... and by the time he was 21 he was wildly famous and had everyone telling him yes to everything. He's gone on record a bunch of times saying he didn't know how to act and could take whatever he wanted. Even in the video he talked about how Jack Johnson "lived like a champion"...and not the other greats. He was just a young troubled kid inside of an amazingly gifted athlete who didn't have anyone to keep him in check and had everything given to him too soon.
Cus did his part to help educate Tyson on being a better man. He probably let Tyson get away too much, but Tyson was his prized pupil. He's a trainer, not a life coach. Tyson should have had other people in his life supporting him. Unfortunately everybody he knew from an early age used and abused him one way or another, and a lot of the blame goes on Tyson himself. Tyson earned his fame and fortune the hard way...whether he knows how to act or not can't take that away. Thankfully he was a boxer and not a politician.
Great videos. Had never seen them.
False, a trainer is a life coach. These guys spend 18 hours a day together. Tyson lived at Cus' house, ate at his table, slept in his bed. Tyson should have had more self control, yes but Cus (this is me speaking in hindsight of course) should have seen the warning signs. Tyson was a violent juvenile prior to meeting the D'mato's. To me he is/was a ticking time bomb full of rage, insecurity, paranoia, depression, sensitivity and self loathing. That combination can be lethal. Needless to say Tyson is a complex and extremely interesting individual.
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:10 pm
marbleheadmaui wrote:
Ali_1748 wrote:
wow, great find Marble.
Do you recognize the host?
It will either be Reg Gutteridge or Harry Carpenter.
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: TYSON ON PAST CHAMPIONS Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:21 pm
hardcoreBEE24 wrote:
Gumby wrote:
I think more than anything Tyson was a victim of his own success. You said that he came up in a war zone... and by the time he was 21 he was wildly famous and had everyone telling him yes to everything. He's gone on record a bunch of times saying he didn't know how to act and could take whatever he wanted. Even in the video he talked about how Jack Johnson "lived like a champion"...and not the other greats. He was just a young troubled kid inside of an amazingly gifted athlete who didn't have anyone to keep him in check and had everything given to him too soon.
Cus did his part to help educate Tyson on being a better man. He probably let Tyson get away too much, but Tyson was his prized pupil. He's a trainer, not a life coach. Tyson should have had other people in his life supporting him. Unfortunately everybody he knew from an early age used and abused him one way or another, and a lot of the blame goes on Tyson himself. Tyson earned his fame and fortune the hard way...whether he knows how to act or not can't take that away. Thankfully he was a boxer and not a politician.
Great videos. Had never seen them.
False, a trainer is a life coach. These guys spend 18 hours a day together. Tyson lived at Cus' house, ate at his table, slept in his bed. Tyson should have had more self control, yes but Cus (this is me speaking in hindsight of course) should have seen the warning signs. Tyson was a violent juvenile prior to meeting the D'mato's. To me he is/was a ticking time bomb full of rage, insecurity, paranoia, depression, sensitivity and self loathing. That combination can be lethal. Needless to say Tyson is a complex and extremely interesting individual.
You're right. I just think what Cus did with Mike was remarkable. Inside and outside the ring. I'm just assuming that a lot of the issues Tyson have given his background and known personality were well beyond Cus' expertise. Tyson needed therapy or something intensive and that was too much to be expected of from Cus.