Interesting article on the current state of boxing

Waiting for the bigger fights to get made these days is a lot like finding someone to bum a cigarette off: It takes a lot longer than it used to and when it finally happens, so much time has passed the anticipation has worn off.

Mayweather-Pacquiao didn’t happen and might not ever happen. It took forever to get Amir Khan-Marcos Maidana done. Paul Williams-Sergio Martinez reportedly is done, finally, though we’ll believe it when we see it.

Tim Bradley-Devon Alexander was on, then off, now maybe on again, and who the hell knows what’s going on with Andre Dirrell-Andre Ward.

Boxing is clearly in one of its down cycles and it sure would help if we could get a bunch of big fights made and done quickly to put the zing back in the game. Call it a boxing bail-out.

But the bail-out isn’t coming. Not quickly enough, anyway. It’s a fight just to put a decent fight together. What the heck is going on?

Industry insiders point to many things, none of them surprising: disharmony and an unwillingness among the game’s power brokers to work together for the good of the sport; an acute disloyalty bred by a shrinking economy; fighters who think they’re worth more than they are, and, as much as anything, business as usual in the fight game.

“There are promoters working against promoters; there are managers working against some promoters, managers working only with some promoters. And you have to blame the networks, too,” promoter Lou DiBella told RingTV.com.

DiBella never has been shy about expressing his frustration with the fight game’s byzantine and unregulated business model. He sees a business being held back by favoritism, disloyalty and lack of vision.

“The industry is a completely unfair playing field but what nobody wants to pay attention to is we’re heading straight downhill,” DiBella said. “The majority of managers and fighters are not adjusting to the new marketplace. And it’s resulting in a tremendous amount of disloyalty.

“Also, right now, more than at any other time I’ve seen, promoters are trying to pilfer other promoters’ fighters and getting involved before a contract is up. That’s because desperation makes for bad behavior.”

DiBella specifically cited what he feels is special treatment afforded some promoters by the networks, and also the practice of certain promoters to keep all of their bigger fights in-house; that is, making matches between fighters under contract to the same promoter.

Many have made the case that both Top Rank and Golden Boy Promotions hurt the sport with this practice. Cameron Dunkin, who manages or co-manages Tim Bradley, Kelly Pavlik, Nonito Donaire, Sergio Mora and James Kirkland, among others, says he doesn’t blame any promoter for going in-house with big fights.

“If I’ve got Kelly Pavlik and he’s a draw, and he’s doing a $2.3 million gate in Atlantic City (N.J.), why should I be forced to fight Paul Williams, who doesn’t draw a $230 gate, and split the money?” Dunkin said. “So now you take a kid like that, and you do someone in-house that is willing to fight him, that doesn’t want everything, and just loves the opportunity but makes a nice payday and gets a shot at him but it’s in-house and it’s easy to do. I don’t blame Top Rank. I don’t blame Golden Boy. They’re easy fights to make.

“And you’ve got someone who comes in from the outside and has not built an attraction -- Lou DiBella, Dan Goossen -- who don’t have an A-side guy. They want to knock off your A-side guy but their guy can’t sell 20 tickets and they want half the money. Why would you want to waste your time? I know the fans want to see great fights and everything, but there’s another side to this.”

Dunkin said there’s nothing unusual about what we’re seeing now; it’s boxing as usual. The only difference between the game now and when he started in it 24 years ago is then you had three big promoters -- Main Events, Top Rank and Don King. Today there are many more players in the game and that complicates things.

Mike Criscio, who manages Alfredo Angulo and prospect Chris Avalos, among others, says he has seen some changes in the six or seven years he’s been in the business and they involve fighters’ expectations.

“A lot of these kids don’t realize HBO and Showtime aren’t paying money they used to pay these guys,” Criscio said. “The fighters think there’s endless money out there and there’s not. They’ve cut back.”

This makes sense. Everything contracts in a struggling economy, including the fight game. Everyone holds onto as much as they can. These aren’t the days of unlimited spending. But Criscio said there’s something else at work too.

“Some of these guys say they’re going to fight but don’t really want to fight these guys, they want to fight another one or two fights before they fight that guy to see what happens,” Criscio said. “Some of these guys don’t really have the balls. I’ve seen a big change in the last six or seven years. Seven years ago there were guys coming out fighting everybody. It was easy to get the fights made I wanted. Now people are shying away.

“It’s not like it was few years ago when guys would say, ‘I’ll fight anyone put in front of me.’”

Some would cite as proof of this the fact Khan-Maidana didn’t get signed until after Maidana struggled with shopworn but tricky DeMarcus Corley in Argentina.

Dunkin said fighters are never the problem.

“I’ve managed well over 150 guys, and I’ve never had one fighter that was afraid of anything,” Dunkin said. “There might be a guy who’s more nervous than another guy, a little more edgy, but he still gets in there and fights his ass off. To me that’s not a coward or someone who’s afraid, or he wouldn’t be doing this s---.”

He cited the Bradley-Alexander fight as a case study of a situation in which fans might think one fighter is afraid of another when in reality business decisions rule the day.

“Do I want to see the fight? Yeah I want to see it happen!” Dunkin said. “But does Bradley want to sign a long-term deal with [promoter Gary Shaw] when he’s a few months away from being out of his contract? He’s willing to fight, he’s even willing to do a rematch with [Alexander] within such a time period, so there will be two fights. But he’s not going to re-sign a long-term agreement in order to fight him. He won’t, so (Shaw) pulls the fight from us. The fight doesn’t happen. That’s not Tim Bradley’s fault.”

Perhaps because his promotional company is not at the top of the food chain, DiBella sees the need for a top-down change for the entire industry.

“All of the entities together have to assess the marketplace and there has to be business rationality,” DiBella said. “And there has to be an even playing field. And there has to be a concept that there must be strategic moves that have to be made for the sport to have its big events that people care about. And that fights have to lead to fights. And that companies have to work together -- if only for the sport to survive.”

But this is the way boxing works. Always has, more or less, always will. Be patient. Sooner or later, the big fights will come.

http://www.ringtv.com/blog/2340/why_is_it_so_difficult_to_get_big_fights_made/

That last part by Dibella is awesome.

As the Heavyweight division goes,so goes boxing.

WinstonSmith wrote:

As the Heavyweight division goes,so goes boxing.

I don't buy that quote, if we had all the best fighting the best right now the sport would be fine.

Posted this on another thread but I think its a simple idea that would improve things

If Im HBO/SHO, I start putting minimum ratings into agreements
Have tiered figures to make promoters & fighters work to market these fights

They're paying waaay to much $ and not much getting in return

Ali_1748 wrote:

WinstonSmith wrote:

As the Heavyweight division goes,so goes boxing.

I don't buy that quote, if we had all the best fighting the best right now the sport would be fine.

Americans don't give a rip about the Klitschkos.I do remember in the 80's when non HW fighters were carrying the sport,so you may have a valid point there.

Boxing is losing this generation to MMA.At least in MMA you have guys who will fight anybody at the drop of a dime and for far less money than boxers earn.

Everything else is an excuse. The problem is most fighters are not seeking glory with sufficient intensity.

Good article; but why pretend that a huge part of boxings problem isn't that MMA has taken a major chunk of the target demographic away? As much as it pains me to say, the reality is if boxing is going to survive as anything other than a fringe sport it need to consolidate into one legitimized organization. The old promoter based, alphabet-soup sanctioned, every commission for itself model is clearly not working.

Younger fans can't be bothered in a sport media-saturated environment to figure out who is a Champ vs. who is a belt-holder, especially when the UFC offers a clear picture (and a picture on your TV every night). To me, boxing has a far superior product for a lot of reasons, but has done a far worse job selling it.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Everything else is an excuse. The problem is most fighters are not seeking glory with sufficient intensity.

You dont think the networks or THE network, HBO, are enabling this?

Why seek glory when a guy like Andre Berto can make millions fighting the likes of Steve Forbes, Michael Trabant, Miki Rodriguez, etc???

Marble,

You've been following this sport as long as I have.Have you ever seen it this bad?If this keeps up,it will be relegated to tennis status.

gomez1012 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Everything else is an excuse. The problem is most fighters are not seeking glory with sufficient intensity.

You dont think the networks or THE network, HBO, are enabling this?

Why seek glory when a guy like Andre Berto can make millions fighting the likes of Steve Forbes, Michael Trabant, Miki Rodriguez, etc???

Enabling? Sure. But when you have an alcoholic where does the primary problem lie? With the drinker or the enablers?

Why seek glory? For the same reasons every kid plays every sport and we all wished we could be pros. For its own sake of course...well and the chicks.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Everything else is an excuse. The problem is most fighters are not seeking glory with sufficient intensity.

Promoters keeping it in-house isn't an excuse it's a factor which is damaging the sport.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Everything else is an excuse. The problem is most fighters are not seeking glory with sufficient intensity.

Thats why right now and in recent boxing history guys like Pac, Wlad, Vitali, Oscar, Shane, and a few others should be put on a pedestal.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

gomez1012 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Everything else is an excuse. The problem is most fighters are not seeking glory with sufficient intensity.

You dont think the networks or THE network, HBO, are enabling this?

Why seek glory when a guy like Andre Berto can make millions fighting the likes of Steve Forbes, Michael Trabant, Miki Rodriguez, etc???

Enabling? Sure. But when you have an alcoholic where does the primary problem lie? With the drinker or the enablers?

Why seek glory? For the same reasons every kid plays every sport and we all wished we could be pros. For its own sake of course...well and the chicks.

Glory and riches go hand in hand. Look at Pac. He went after Glory and it has paid off big time. I agree with Marble on this one.

WinstonSmith wrote:

Marble,

You've been following this sport as long as I have.Have you ever seen it this bad?If this keeps up,it will be relegated to tennis status.

Not in my lifetime. If you read the commentators in the late 1950's though it sounded this bad.

My own view is the promoters are missing a key point. The sport isn't helped by having every decent fighter having a belt nor by every decent fight being for a title. The sport would be helped by the creation oif HOUSEHOLD NAMES. That means FEWER champions so that the casual fan KNOWS who the kings and who the pretenders are. Right now the sport has TWO household names in the USA. TWO!!!!!!!!!!! It needs to have 8-10. How do we make that happen? By stopping the dilution in titles so being a champion actually means something! My own guess is the sport would have MORE megafights in terms of drawing casual fans (and in terms of creating boxing junkies) my way.

In addition it would help educate casual fans who think fights for straps today necessarily means they are seeing top-level boxing. The when to mediocrities show up? They think "this sport blows." Instead boxing should make it easy to understand at what level fighters are fighting to create the right expectations going in.

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Everything else is an excuse. The problem is most fighters are not seeking glory with sufficient intensity.

Thats why right now and in recent boxing history guys like Pac, Wlad, Vitali, Oscar, Shane, and a few others should be put on a pedestal.

Yeah, though guys fighting twice a year? The pedestal ought not be excessive.

Ali_1748 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Everything else is an excuse. The problem is most fighters are not seeking glory with sufficient intensity.

Promoters keeping it in-house isn't an excuse it's a factor which is damaging the sport.

That only happens because fighters are insufficiently demanding.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Enabling? Sure. But when you have an alcoholic where does the primary problem lie? With the drinker or the enablers?

Why seek glory? For the same reasons every kid plays every sport and we all wished we could be pros. For its own sake of course...well and the chicks.

But why seek the glory when you dont have to be rich???

marbleheadmaui wrote:

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Everything else is an excuse. The problem is most fighters are not seeking glory with sufficient intensity.

Thats why right now and in recent boxing history guys like Pac, Wlad, Vitali, Oscar, Shane, and a few others should be put on a pedestal.

Yeah, though guys fighting twice a year? The pedestal ought not be excessive.

Right now I will take them fighting twice a year against the best vs 5 times a year agains 5 bums. Right now thats what we are getting from other guys. Those guys go after the best fight possible. Manny taking on Margo (eventhough he is a cheater) is a huge risk and is one of the best fights that can be made for Pac. There are a few others he could have fought but none of them present that big of a challenge.

gomez1012 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Enabling? Sure. But when you have an alcoholic where does the primary problem lie? With the drinker or the enablers?

Why seek glory? For the same reasons every kid plays every sport and we all wished we could be pros. For its own sake of course...well and the chicks.

But why seek the glory when you dont have to be rich???

Same answer. For it's own sake. My own view is that one thing that separates the greats from the goods in almost all sports is loving the sport and a deep desire to be the very best. I mean money sure didn't stop Michael Jordan or Tom Brady or Ray Leonard from doing the things they had to do to prove they were the best over and over and over again.

When the chips are down and one is battling for their boxing, and perhaps actual, life, I don't think anyone is thinking "$8 million." My guess is they're thinking "I want that championship!"

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Everything else is an excuse. The problem is most fighters are not seeking glory with sufficient intensity.

Thats why right now and in recent boxing history guys like Pac, Wlad, Vitali, Oscar, Shane, and a few others should be put on a pedestal.

Yeah, though guys fighting twice a year? The pedestal ought not be excessive.

Right now I will take them fighting twice a year against the best vs 5 times a year agains 5 bums. Right now thats what we are getting from other guys. Those guys go after the best fight possible. Manny taking on Margo (eventhough he is a cheater) is a huge risk and is one of the best fights that can be made for Pac. There are a few others he could have fought but none of them present that big of a challenge.

You're assuming a bs false choice. There is NO reason for either. 2-3 times a year in big fights and twice a year in tune-ups is hardly excessive and would make them better fighters.

I refuse to accept a lowering of standards so we can call someone special.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Everything else is an excuse. The problem is most fighters are not seeking glory with sufficient intensity.

Thats why right now and in recent boxing history guys like Pac, Wlad, Vitali, Oscar, Shane, and a few others should be put on a pedestal.

Yeah, though guys fighting twice a year? The pedestal ought not be excessive.

Right now I will take them fighting twice a year against the best vs 5 times a year agains 5 bums. Right now thats what we are getting from other guys. Those guys go after the best fight possible. Manny taking on Margo (eventhough he is a cheater) is a huge risk and is one of the best fights that can be made for Pac. There are a few others he could have fought but none of them present that big of a challenge.

You're assuming a bs false choice. There is NO reason for either. 2-3 times a year in big fights and twice a year in tune-ups is hardly excessive and would make them better fighters.

I refuse to accept a lowering of standards so we can call someone special.

For you its lowering a standard for me its raising since I have grown up in this era. Thats kinda sad huh?

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Same answer. For it's own sake. My own view is that one thing that separates the greats from the goods in almost all sports is loving the sport and a deep desire to be the very best. I mean money sure didn't stop Michael Jordan or Tom Brady or Ray Leonard from doing the things they had to do to prove they were the best over and over and over again.

When the chips are down and one is battling for their boxing, and perhaps actual, life, I don't think anyone is thinking "$8 million." My guess is they're thinking "I want that championship!"

Thats my point, these fighters that have grown up on HBO have no desire because the talent they do have is being wasted away on nobodies that get ridiculously over paid for

but I agree that the greats will want to be great no matter what the price

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Everything else is an excuse. The problem is most fighters are not seeking glory with sufficient intensity.

Thats why right now and in recent boxing history guys like Pac, Wlad, Vitali, Oscar, Shane, and a few others should be put on a pedestal.

Yeah, though guys fighting twice a year? The pedestal ought not be excessive.

Right now I will take them fighting twice a year against the best vs 5 times a year agains 5 bums. Right now thats what we are getting from other guys. Those guys go after the best fight possible. Manny taking on Margo (eventhough he is a cheater) is a huge risk and is one of the best fights that can be made for Pac. There are a few others he could have fought but none of them present that big of a challenge.

You're assuming a bs false choice. There is NO reason for either. 2-3 times a year in big fights and twice a year in tune-ups is hardly excessive and would make them better fighters.

I refuse to accept a lowering of standards so we can call someone special.

For you its lowering a standard for me its raising since I have grown up in this era. Thats kinda sad huh?

Hadn't thought of it quite that way. YUCK!!!!!!!

Now go read some boxing history you frakkin youngun!

gomez1012 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Same answer. For it's own sake. My own view is that one thing that separates the greats from the goods in almost all sports is loving the sport and a deep desire to be the very best. I mean money sure didn't stop Michael Jordan or Tom Brady or Ray Leonard from doing the things they had to do to prove they were the best over and over and over again.

When the chips are down and one is battling for their boxing, and perhaps actual, life, I don't think anyone is thinking "$8 million." My guess is they're thinking "I want that championship!"

Thats my point, these fighters that have grown up on HBO have no desire because the talent they do have is being wasted away on nobodies that get ridiculously over paid for

but I agree that the greats will want to be great no matter what the price

And maybe that is just something one is born with. Maybe it isn't something that can be taught or learned. I dunno.

It's really funny where one finds a truth sometimes. Survivor sings "So many times it happens too fast, you trade your passion for glory."

I think the idea is right, but it oughtta read "You trade your 'passion for glory,' for money."