COMPARING ERAS: WEIGH INS

100 years ago before championship fights fighters had to step on the scale a few minutes before the fight. They would warm up, weigh-in, go to the ring, glove up in the ring and fight. In that world welterweights weighed 147 or lower IN THE RING! When you look at weights prior to the 1930's understand those are the weights at which they actually fought.

From about 1920 to the 1990's fighters weighed in the day of the fight usually around noon, though that could vary. So they had at least a few hours to eat and rehydrate. But they had to be careful to not overdo it or they'd be vulnerable at fight time. The difference was probably no more than a couple or three pounds, but we don't really know because it was thought to be close enough to fight time that things couldn't vary much. In this era fighters were likely actually fighting only a few pounds over the reported weight. In other words welters were likely in the ring at not more than 150-152 or so.

Today weigh-ins happen as much as 36 hours before the fights. Because people recognize this really doesn't mean much we often now see unofficial weigh-ins the night of the fight. What those tell us is it isn't unusual for fighters to be fighting THREE divisions above the division they claim to be in.

Now I'm not going to fight the fight about what's better and why. What I want to do is give a couple of examples where various fighters, if we held the weigh-in approach constant, would fight.

Sugar Ray Robinson-For his first 75 fights or so he made 147 with issues at all often weighing in at 145 or below. Today? With 36 hours to work with? He makes 140 without question, and based upon how current lightweights rehydrate? Probably 135. So when we talk about how Robinson would fare over the last 15 years? We should be comparing Robinson to men like Kostya and Sweet Pea and Floyd Mayweather and JMM and Manny. Not to the bigger present welters. Like Margarito or Cotto or Paul Williams. I think this throws Robinson's sheer athletic freakishness into into sharper relief. I mean we all think highly of JMM. But how in God's name would he compete with the 5'11, 73 inch reach Robinson?

Roy Jones Junior-For much of Jones career he weighed in at 175 BEFORE a 36 hour gap. Go back to the 1930's and 1940's? Roy Jones is likely a heavyweight. He has to fight men like Louis and Baer and Schmeling and Marciano. Comparing him in a fight to Billy Conn or a prime Ezzard or Archie is in some ways a joke. Roy, except in his earliest years, couldn't make the weight.

Just something to think about.

totaly 100 percent true...the weigh ins today are a joke like the 17 so called divisions are ..pavik 179 for a middleweight fight the other day a guy 138 for a featheweight fight..lets stop the nonsence now..

i was actually thinking about this the other day. its weird to think about. we should be comparing modern day fighters to fighters of the past a weight class above them (like modern day welterweight to an old day middleweight).

i wish we had the weigh ins on fight night

i think thats better

powerpuncher wrote:

i was actually thinking about this the other day. its weird to think about. we should be comparing modern day fighters to fighters of the past a weight class above them (like modern day welterweight to an old day middleweight).

I think in most cases the answer is yes.

Kelly Pavlik wouldn't be fighting Marvin Hagler, he'd be fighting Michael Spinks. LOL, good luck with THAT!

David Haye would NEVER have been a 175. He would have been fighting Ali and Frazier and Foreman. Bwahahahaha

Nikolay Valuev would still be a heavy though

Aiolos wrote:

i wish we had the weigh ins on fight night

i think thats better

Yup. The issue of course becomes THEN if a guy struggles to make weight and fails? It can be pretty dangerous. But I'm not sure it is any more dangerous that guys like Gatti and Gamache fighting despite being 2-3 divisions apart in the ring.

It's a load of shit not having same day weigh ins. This was an idea of the fighters, trainers and promoters to have a leg up on the competition and to milk more money out of press conferences under the guise that it benefits the fighters health. Gatti Gamanche is a prime example. One guy is fighting where he should and the other guy is two divisions heavier. The results were disastrous and that fight should have ended the idea that day or day and a half before weigh ins are nonsense.

i agree that same day weigh ins are a way better idea. i know that in high school, people were cutting 10+ pounds weekly and sometimes 2 or 3 times a week. if high schoolers can do that that often and wrestling the same day then why cant professional boxers do the same thing? they dont have to cut weight. its fine to weight 165 or even 170 maybe and fight 160 but when you are getting close to 180, thats just ridiculous. all weighing in the night before does is make people cut more weight which is more dangerous.

imagine harry greb who was beating light HWs and HWs fighting the welterweights of today. they would seem like featherweights to him.

powerpuncher wrote:

i agree that same day weigh ins are a way better idea. i know that in high school, people were cutting 10+ pounds weekly and sometimes 2 or 3 times a week. if high schoolers can do that that often and wrestling the same day then why cant professional boxers do the same thing? they dont have to cut weight. its fine to weight 165 or even 170 maybe and fight 160 but when you are getting close to 180, thats just ridiculous. all weighing in the night before does is make people cut more weight which is more dangerous.

imagine harry greb who was beating light HWs and HWs fighting the welterweights of today. they would seem like featherweights to him.

Yup....we weighed in the morning of a boxing match and 2 hours before a wrestling match. If there was a 2 day tournament we were allowed 2lbs the 2nd day. Day before weigh ins have to stop. Not only would fighters be at a similar weight, but they would have more time to make weight. Plus, they should have up until one hour before fight time to make weight.

flapanther2001 wrote:

powerpuncher wrote:

i agree that same day weigh ins are a way better idea. i know that in high school, people were cutting 10+ pounds weekly and sometimes 2 or 3 times a week. if high schoolers can do that that often and wrestling the same day then why cant professional boxers do the same thing? they dont have to cut weight. its fine to weight 165 or even 170 maybe and fight 160 but when you are getting close to 180, thats just ridiculous. all weighing in the night before does is make people cut more weight which is more dangerous.

imagine harry greb who was beating light HWs and HWs fighting the welterweights of today. they would seem like featherweights to him.

Yup....we weighed in the morning of a boxing match and 2 hours before a wrestling match. If there was a 2 day tournament we were allowed 2lbs the 2nd day. Day before weigh ins have to stop. Not only would fighters be at a similar weight, but they would have more time to make weight. Plus, they should have up until one hour before fight time to make weight.

I suspect the REAL problem in getting this changed now is that the weigh-ins have become one final marketing opportunity for promoters. They are kind of like "Don't forget the fight is tomorrow night" kinds of things.

I suspect the REAL problem in getting this changed now is that the weigh-ins have become one final marketing opportunity for promoters. They are kind of like "Don't forget the fight is tomorrow night" kinds of things.


True...true...true...

My question is this: which makes for better fights?

If a guy has to kill himself to make weight the day of the fight, are we going to get the best out him in the ring? I agree the ability to hydrate shouldn't be considered a boxing skill, but I think the day-before weight in gives advantages in two ways:

1) It allows for the best possible matches between guys who might not naturally be in the same weight class - e.g. Pac vs. Floyd. Not that these matches happen anyway, but the potential is there. With fewer and fewer "big fights" out there to be made, it seems like this approach could help.

2) As mentioned before, day-before weigh-ins are a chance to promote the fight. Boxing isn't what it was 50 years ago; the sport needs all the help it can get to break through the sports media clutter and reach an audience.

Tobe06 wrote:

My question is this: which makes for better fights?

If a guy has to kill himself to make weight the day of the fight, are we going to get the best out him in the ring? I agree the ability to hydrate shouldn't be considered a boxing skill, but I think the day-before weight in gives advantages in two ways:

1) It allows for the best possible matches between guys who might not naturally be in the same weight class - e.g. Pac vs. Floyd. Not that these matches happen anyway, but the potential is there. With fewer and fewer "big fights" out there to be made, it seems like this approach could help.

2) As mentioned before, day-before weigh-ins are a chance to promote the fight. Boxing isn't what it was 50 years ago; the sport needs all the help it can get to break through the sports media clutter and reach an audience.

I think it is pretty clear same-day weigh-ins make for the best fights. Guys have to fight close to their optimal weight and not suck down to an unsustainable one. They might try it once, but they learn their lesson. If they can't make it? They move up. My other issue is day before weigh-ins somethimes masks a size disparity. The Gatti-Gamache fight will bother me forever.

I am HIGHLY sympathetic to the marketing angle. That's the REAL reason we're never going back. I mean even us whack-job fans find those sessions a blast and would lament their loss.

There are two contradictory ideas:

multiple weight classes - Having a lot of classes so every guy can fight at their optimal weight.

modern weigh ins - Having a day or so for fighters to rehydrate and replenish to their "natural" weight.

Either idea makes sense, but they don't make sense together.

If a guy comes in at 160 on fight night, he should be a middle weight. Or if boxing is going to allow a fight between someone who is 180 and someone who is 160 on a regular basis, there is no need for 160, 168 and 175 (get rid of 168).

The Peterson-Rios fight is an example. Rios was much stronger and bigger (and Peterson fought a stupid stupid fight). Either Rios should be 147-154 and Peterson 135-140 or just put them both at 147. It doesn't make sense for them both to be light weights and fight at 150 and 140 respectively.

I'll never argue that Rios didn't deserve the win or he's too big for the division because he's awesome. It's the system that's messed up.

Gumby wrote:

There are two contradictory ideas:

multiple weight classes - Having a lot of classes so every guy can fight at their optimal weight.

modern weigh ins - Having a day or so for fighters to rehydrate and replenish to their "natural" weight.

Either idea makes sense, but they don't make sense together.

If a guy comes in at 160 on fight night, he should be a middle weight. Or if boxing is going to allow a fight between someone who is 180 and someone who is 160 on a regular basis, there is no need for 160, 168 and 175 (get rid of 168).

The Peterson-Rios fight is an example. Rios was much stronger and bigger (and Peterson fought a stupid stupid fight). Either Rios should be 147-154 and Peterson 135-140 or just put them both at 147. It doesn't make sense for them both to be light weights and fight at 150 and 140 respectively.

I'll never argue that Rios didn't deserve the win or he's too big for the division because he's awesome. It's the system that's messed up.

GUMBY FOR BOXING CZAR!!!!!!!!!!!!