GREAT SHORT CAREERS

Often times fans complain when ATG lists come out that sheer fighting volume and number of wins is overweighted as a criteria. I think they're wrong, but that's beside the point. It does raise an interesting question. How many fights does it take to build a truly great career? Well, here, in no order are some pretty spectacular careers with a relatively few number of fights.

Jim Jeffries-In only 22 fights Jeffries managed to destroy the heavyweight division. He went 6-1-1 aginst HOFers and he did defeat black fighters before becoming champion. When he retired in 1904 at age 29 gifted black fighters like Jack Johnson, Joe Jeanette and Sam Langford were either too small (Langford) or just not perceived as yet being read for that level of competition (Johnson, Jeanette, McVea).

Joe Frazier-In 37 fights Frazier, fighting in the greatest era in the history of the division, defeated eleven ranked fighters, won one of the truly prestigious battles in ring history, had nine title defenses as THE MAN, lost only to two of the top five heavies of all time and displayed as much grit and determination as any man who ever stepped into the ring. Oh yeah, he did most of it with one functioning eye.

Michael Spinks- in 32 fights Spinks became THE MAN at both 175 and heavyweight and had a total of seven defenses. He went 3-1 against likely HOFers and cleaned out one of the finest groups of light heavyweights ever collected in history while beating a dozen ranked fighters.

Ray Leonard-In 40 fights Leonard had four wins that might just match any four wins of any other fighter who ever walked. Duran, Hearns, Benitez and Hagler could be a Mount Rushmore of Boxing. Leonard became THE MAN at both 147 and 160 and defeated 18 ranked fighters.

Felix Trinidad-In 45 fights he defeated five, seasoned and previously unbeaten fighters, became THE MAN at both 147 and 154 and defeated 14 ranked fighters.

Carlos Palomino-In 38 fights he became THE MAN at 147 and had seven defenses and fought a marvelous fight with the great Benitez in losing his title.

Aaron Pryor-In 40 fights the Hawk went 3-0 against HOFers, became THE MAN at 140 and never lost that title after 13 defenses. A true division wrecker.

Kosta Tszyu-34 career fights. In his FOURTH fight he fought the ranked and still formidable Juan Laporte. Kostya beat 13 ranked fighters.

Oscar deLa Hoya-In 45 fights Oscar faced likely HOFers on nine occasions. Now that he only went 3-6 says something, but he sure went after it. 16 wins over ranked guys.

Pernell Whittaker-In 46 fights THE MAN at both 135 and 147 and a win over then then top dog at 154 with a total of 16 defenses. Author of the most prestigous draw in history over/with Julio Cesar Chavez.

Vicente Saldivar-In 40 fights he became THE MAN at featherweight and reeled off eight defenses. He defeated nine ranked fights ALL of whom were in the top five.

Salvador Sanchez-In 45 fights he became THE MAN at featherweight, defended nine times and went 4-0 against HOFers. All before his 24th birthday.

Jeff Chandler-In 37 fights he became THE MAN at bantamweight and had eight defenses before eye trouble took him out. Richie Sandoval helped.

There are about a dozen examples of guys who built HOF quality careers on under 50 fights. At least two of those in Pernell and Leonard are top 20 all-time kinds of fighters. So it can be done. What does it take?

1. A fighter who WANTS to do it. Who aspires to greatness and will take the risks to test himself and who will lived in a disciplined way to make it happen.
2. A fighter who will NOT let others dictate his career to him, be it a manager or promoter or family.
3. A fighter who has had one hell of a preparation, probably in the amateurs. A guy who comes to the pro game almost fully formed as a fighter.
4. Having the good fortune to fight at a time when his division is populated by a number of quality guys who can push him and make him rise and display his greatness.
5. At least excellent physical and mental gifts.






_________________
Bring me the best and I will knock them out

Alexis Arguello

great list its nuts what guys like Frazier and Pryor were able to do poor Salvador , I get the impression he would have been one of the 70 +fightsguys easily

You really have to want it to be great. Forget the idiotic boxing fans of today. Losing isn't a problem. Not taking on competition that might beat you is the problem!!!!!

agree captain

captainanddew wrote:

You really have to want it to be great. Forget the idiotic boxing fans of today. Losing isn't a problem. Not taking on competition that might beat you is the problem!!!!!

HEAR! HEAR!

yep its taking chances and a loss isnt a shame or the end of the world..good examples indeed of fighters that mostly ill call great.its not avoiding top talent at the top of there game either..to me thats far worse than any losses..this era is loaded with fighters like that ..

Salavdor Sanchez: If ever there was a "James Dean" of boxing.......

What a fascinating Idea for a topic...

I have always been enamored with the idea of a short, swing-for-the-fences career that is capped with success.

4445Frank wrote:

Salavdor Sanchez: If ever there was a "James Dean" of boxing.......

The amazing thing is Japan has a guy with a shockingly similar story. Masao Obha.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=33541&cat=boxer

my post from the other thread:

Nice list

Fighters today seem to be the complete opposite of this

Want short careers, big $$$, but dont want to face the best competition available

One guy who def needs to take note of this, Guillermo Rigondeaux

gomez1012 wrote:

my post from the other thread:

Nice list

Fighters today seem to be the complete opposite of this

Want short careers, big $$$, but dont want to face the best competition available

One guy who def needs to take note of this, Guillermo Rigondeaux

Yeah what are he and Lara doing? Time to step on it. Time's a wastin'!

For all the crap I gave Gamboa early about his terrible technique etc? he is doing EXACTLY what he should be doing. 18 fights in three years, clearly focused on improving his technique and his mindset in the ring and has made major jumps in the quality of the competition he is facing.

EXEMPLARY!

The problem I have in trying to contribute to this list is: what constitutes a short career?

Marble I read your criteria, but I just don't think 50 fights is an accurate measure. Many,many excellent fighters of the last 40 years never made 50 fights.

SRL fought for 15 years and made a comeback at 42.

The first that popped in my mind was Calzaghe, but he fought for a good number of years professionally and was smart enough to know when to stop. I don't think his career was short.

As usual, I tend to think of fighters whose careers I actually witnessed. I find this interesting..

Canvas wrote:

The problem I have in trying to contribute to this list is: what constitutes a short career?

Marble I read your criteria, but I just don't think 50 fights is an accurate measure. Many,many excellent fighters of the last 40 years never made 50 fights.

SRL fought for 15 years and made a comeback at 42.

The first that popped in my mind was Calzaghe, but he fought for a good number of years professionally and was smart enough to know when to stop. I don't think his career was short.

As usual, I tend to think of fighters whose careers I actually witnessed. I find this interesting..

You only say that because it was completely arbitrary!

just tough to think of guys. I always felt the perfect career was short and fight the best names of your time.

Canvas wrote:

just tough to think of guys. I always felt the perfect career was short and fight the best names of your time.

Sounds like Ray Leonard to me.

Out of all those guys mentioned Marble, I believe Ray Leonard's career is one of most overlooked and underated..

SRL was absolute hell when he was well, a short but tremendous career.

This topic should be amount of fights not length of career.

hardcoreBEE24 wrote:

This topic should be amount of fights not length of career.

That's kinda how I measured "length."

marbleheadmaui wrote:

hardcoreBEE24 wrote:

This topic should be amount of fights not length of career.

That's kinda how I measured "length."

Ok buddy. Sorry to nitpick your post.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

4445Frank wrote:

Salavdor Sanchez: If ever there was a "James Dean" of boxing.......

The amazing thing is Japan has a guy with a shockingly similar story. Masao Obha.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=33541&cat=boxer

Masao Ohba died in an automobile accident on January 24, 1973 while still world champion. Wow. Reincarnation?

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Yeah what are he and Lara doing? Time to step on it. Time's a wastin'!

For all the crap I gave Gamboa early about his terrible technique etc? he is doing EXACTLY what he should be doing. 18 fights in three years, clearly focused on improving his technique and his mindset in the ring and has made major jumps in the quality of the competition he is facing.

EXEMPLARY!

+1

I want to give DLH some credit. He deserved the nod against Mosley II (even Mosley knew he lost) and Tito (<-that fight was a straight up roberry). make that 5-4 in my books in his 9 big time fights.

Yo Marble, How do you know which fighters were ranked back in the day? Do you use some online source?

SlickMoneyXL wrote:

Yo Marble, How do you know which fighters were ranked back in the day? Do you use some online source?

I start with Ring.com's annual ratings and then go to my magazine collection.

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine%27s_Annual_Ratings

While I agree on ODH should have gotten the nod over Mosley in the rematch and against Trinidad, he did have some fights go his way. The Sturm fight definitely comes to mind.

ODH, I give the man alot of credit for taking on the competitors he faced.