Final thoughts on Mayweather and Pacquiao

captainanddew wrote:

It took some arm twisting from me but a couple of weeks ago I got my wife to agree to a new punishment for our 3 year old.

When Peyton acts up, we put him in his room, turn a computer on, and play Manny singing Nothing is gonna change my love for you on Jimmy Kimmel.

Ali will tell you that's the type of child abuse that can get you on Oprah. I say, your kid might mistake that for good singing and embarrass you in front of company. Either way you look at it, not a good idea.

soonermark890 wrote:

dmar5143 wrote:

im on my way to bed..i see.suppliments give better reflexes and speed.realy..does it also make them take a better punch..lets see mosley and green both complained as an excuse they were overtrained..how come the suppliments didnt help them..how can a armstrong pep or a gasper ortega or greb fight over 25 times in one year without suppliments.how come they were not overtrained..im just wondering sooner.mosley also had a nutritionalist cook for the gang..who are these real fast fighters today .with great speed.there should be plenty if they took suppliments.extra fast relexces.they all or most of them should because of suppliments right.or do only certain fighters take them...name me 50 fighters who have this great speed and reflexes...please give me a list of theses wonder vitimins that the fda has approved for the main reason to develope speed..what suppliments are geared towards making you have great relexes and co ordination..whats there names soo we can check on the net where it says take this and your speed increases a lot.ditto relexes..how come we dont see these results in the ring by thousands of fighters if thses suppliments are so great..
surely there should be a suppliment on the market to make you a great puncher..not peds now...vitamin or suppliments..why isnt there a heavyweight that can throw faster punches then ali or holmes tyson or patterson.where is there great speed or footwork that embareses a tunney a ali a holmes..maybe heavys dont take suppliments..im not breaking them on you but the proff is in the pudding..by golly we have superman in the ring today...

.

Are you fucking kidding me Dmar. You really think they dont? Just look at all the other sports in the world. Somehow just because its boxing it doesnt help. OK makes sense.

The big difference is bocing is weight restricted. All supplements do is turn 5'6 featherweights into 5'6 lightweights. Is that really an advantage?

marbleheadmaui wrote:

soonermark890 wrote:

dmar5143 wrote:

im on my way to bed..i see.suppliments give better reflexes and speed.realy..does it also make them take a better punch..lets see mosley and green both complained as an excuse they were overtrained..how come the suppliments didnt help them..how can a armstrong pep or a gasper ortega or greb fight over 25 times in one year without suppliments.how come they were not overtrained..im just wondering sooner.mosley also had a nutritionalist cook for the gang..who are these real fast fighters today .with great speed.there should be plenty if they took suppliments.extra fast relexces.they all or most of them should because of suppliments right.or do only certain fighters take them...name me 50 fighters who have this great speed and reflexes...please give me a list of theses wonder vitimins that the fda has approved for the main reason to develope speed..what suppliments are geared towards making you have great relexes and co ordination..whats there names soo we can check on the net where it says take this and your speed increases a lot.ditto relexes..how come we dont see these results in the ring by thousands of fighters if thses suppliments are so great..
surely there should be a suppliment on the market to make you a great puncher..not peds now...vitamin or suppliments..why isnt there a heavyweight that can throw faster punches then ali or holmes tyson or patterson.where is there great speed or footwork that embareses a tunney a ali a holmes..maybe heavys dont take suppliments..im not breaking them on you but the proff is in the pudding..by golly we have superman in the ring today...

.

Are you fucking kidding me Dmar. You really think they dont? Just look at all the other sports in the world. Somehow just because its boxing it doesnt help. OK makes sense.

The big difference is bocing is weight restricted. All supplements do is turn 5'6 featherweights into 5'6 lightweights. Is that really an advantage?

Yes its an advantage to be much stronger and faster. Is it not?

again sooner my friend who are these fast guys..lets see at heavy..faster than tunney ali holmes on foot.or handspeed over tyson patterson ali holmes in the heavies.surely theres gotta be 20 of them for sure..dawson is slick is he slicker than billy conn or willie pastrano..what middle has faster handspeed than robinson or leanord.better relflexes also..there must be at least 30 fighters right..whos got better hand speed or footwork or relexes then pep..the big strong 126 lb divsion which by the way does have a deep division..making a statement out of the blue is one thing..facts eveidence and proof is another.....what 185 pound fighter is stronger than marciano..what 160 pounder in the ring is stronger than fullmer lamotta....since strenth via suplliments plus speed plus reflexes plus advanced or so called advanced training incresases coordination why thats a formular to increase accrate and deadly punching power..what 185 pounder hits harder than marciano what middle hits harder then robinson or ketchel feather in saddler or light guys like zarate gomes oliveries..what 112 pounder hits harder than jimmy wilde...what light fighters are faster than bushy graham or relexes and handspeed over barney ross...if suppliments that do this and fighters of today a huge majority that take them then you would have no problem giving 20 examples of each question....the eveidence in the ring is not there..sorry to say but your therory pertaining to boxing is BS..

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

soonermark890 wrote:

dmar5143 wrote:

im on my way to bed..i see.suppliments give better reflexes and speed.realy..does it also make them take a better punch..lets see mosley and green both complained as an excuse they were overtrained..how come the suppliments didnt help them..how can a armstrong pep or a gasper ortega or greb fight over 25 times in one year without suppliments.how come they were not overtrained..im just wondering sooner.mosley also had a nutritionalist cook for the gang..who are these real fast fighters today .with great speed.there should be plenty if they took suppliments.extra fast relexces.they all or most of them should because of suppliments right.or do only certain fighters take them...name me 50 fighters who have this great speed and reflexes...please give me a list of theses wonder vitimins that the fda has approved for the main reason to develope speed..what suppliments are geared towards making you have great relexes and co ordination..whats there names soo we can check on the net where it says take this and your speed increases a lot.ditto relexes..how come we dont see these results in the ring by thousands of fighters if thses suppliments are so great..
surely there should be a suppliment on the market to make you a great puncher..not peds now...vitamin or suppliments..why isnt there a heavyweight that can throw faster punches then ali or holmes tyson or patterson.where is there great speed or footwork that embareses a tunney a ali a holmes..maybe heavys dont take suppliments..im not breaking them on you but the proff is in the pudding..by golly we have superman in the ring today...

.

Are you fucking kidding me Dmar. You really think they dont? Just look at all the other sports in the world. Somehow just because its boxing it doesnt help. OK makes sense.

The big difference is bocing is weight restricted. All supplements do is turn 5'6 featherweights into 5'6 lightweights. Is that really an advantage?

Yes its an advantage to be much stronger and faster. Is it not?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! You go from fighting 126 pounders to taller, longer, stronger 135 pounders. Where is the advanatage again???????

dmar5143 wrote:

again sooner my friend who are these fast guys..lets see at heavy..faster than tunney ali holmes on foot.or handspeed over tyson patterson ali holmes in the heavies.surely theres gotta be 20 of them for sure..dawson is slick is he slicker than billy conn or willie pastrano..what middle has faster handspeed than robinson or leanord.better relflexes also..there must be at least 30 fighters right..whos got better hand speed or footwork or relexes then pep..the big strong 126 lb divsion which by the way does have a deep division..making a statement out of the blue is one thing..facts eveidence and proof is another.....what 185 pound fighter is stronger than marciano..what 160 pounder in the ring is stronger than fullmer lamotta....since strenth via suplliments plus speed plus reflexes plus advanced or so called advanced training incresases coordination why thats a formular to increase accrate and deadly punching power..what 185 pounder hits harder than marciano what middle hits harder then robinson or ketchel feather in saddler or light guys like zarate gomes oliveries..what 112 pounder hits harder than jimmy wilde...what light fighters are faster than bushy graham or relexes and handspeed over barney ross...if suppliments that do this and fighters of today a huge majority that take them then you would have no problem giving 20 examples of each question....the eveidence in the ring is not there..sorry to say but your therory pertaining to boxing is BS..

If Sooner's proposition had a shred of truth then it would show up in the heavyweight division where weight restrictions don't exist. If that stuff mattered much in boxing we'd have the greatest heavyweight division in history. Instead we have our dismal crop. Case dismissed.

great point marble + coming when i get it

4445Frank wrote:

Honestly, I think it depends on what old timers you're talking about. I like Jack Dempsey just as much as the next guy, however it's not odd to see Jack falling all over the place when throwing punches. Max Baer was clumsy too. Gene Tunney might've been the best HW up to the time he existed. Joe Louis was great and would've destoryed both Klits on the same night. I haven't seen enough of Benny Leonard but Willie Pep was a great figther. Reminds me of Hector Camacho. Ray Robinson? I don't think anyone will ever do it better. Ali, same thing. My point is that it's not the era, it's the fighter. As far the number of fights a boxer has, Archie Moore had 130 KO's. Sure, he hit hard but is he the hardest puncher in Light Heavyweight history? No. Bob Foster didn't have a quarter of the fights Moore had but may've hit as hard. Julio Chavez had over 100 fights didn't he? I don't like Floyd Mayweather, but does anyone think he would've had much trouble with Chavez at any weight division? I think an honest look at individual fighters proves that it's the quality, not quanity of fights that prove a fighter's merit. Ray Leonard proved that. I watched Duran and Aaron Pryor in their primes. Great fighters. However, I think that anyone who watches Manny Pacquiao and says there's no comparison is in denial of what they're seeing. Just my take.

The thing is look back at a guy like Jose Basora. Who you say? A middle from the 1940's. Finished like 75-20, never won a title, never even fought for one. 6' tall. Today fans would say he was a stiff right? Well, let's see. He was a top ten ranked middle for three consecutive years. Had a draw and a win over Jake LaMotta, three wins and a draw with Holman Williams, a win over Fritzie Zivic and a draw with a 24 year old Ray Robinson. Of his 13 losses before his final "another guy who should no longer be fighting" years, ten were to either HOFers or ranked middles. Yet today nobody has ever heard of him. NOBODY thinks Basora belongs in the Hall despite having five wins and a draw with HOFers.

Or how about a guy like Art Aragon? Another guy who went like 90-25 as a lightweight in the 1940's-1950's. Two wins wins over HOFer Jimmy Carter, one when CVarter was champ, a dozen wins over other ranked guys. Again, never going to the hall, just a good fighter. Both of these guys beat a dozen ranked guys when there were twice as many fighters jammed into half as many divisions.

Manny is extraordinary, but he's beaten only a dozen ranked guys, not 30 of them.

yep dmar and marble are right on this one all the way

marble good points.what id like to add is yes fighters beat x amount of ranked guys..as you pointed out there are over twice as many ranked guys today over years ago because of divisions every 3 or so 4 pounds or so and half the amount of fighters today..another factor back then if fighter A beat a dozen ranked guys that dozen of ranked guys also beat 10-15 or more ranked guys each..thats one impressive thought.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

soonermark890 wrote:

dmar5143 wrote:

im on my way to bed..i see.suppliments give better reflexes and speed.realy..does it also make them take a better punch..lets see mosley and green both complained as an excuse they were overtrained..how come the suppliments didnt help them..how can a armstrong pep or a gasper ortega or greb fight over 25 times in one year without suppliments.how come they were not overtrained..im just wondering sooner.mosley also had a nutritionalist cook for the gang..who are these real fast fighters today .with great speed.there should be plenty if they took suppliments.extra fast relexces.they all or most of them should because of suppliments right.or do only certain fighters take them...name me 50 fighters who have this great speed and reflexes...please give me a list of theses wonder vitimins that the fda has approved for the main reason to develope speed..what suppliments are geared towards making you have great relexes and co ordination..whats there names soo we can check on the net where it says take this and your speed increases a lot.ditto relexes..how come we dont see these results in the ring by thousands of fighters if thses suppliments are so great..
surely there should be a suppliment on the market to make you a great puncher..not peds now...vitamin or suppliments..why isnt there a heavyweight that can throw faster punches then ali or holmes tyson or patterson.where is there great speed or footwork that embareses a tunney a ali a holmes..maybe heavys dont take suppliments..im not breaking them on you but the proff is in the pudding..by golly we have superman in the ring today...

.

Are you fucking kidding me Dmar. You really think they dont? Just look at all the other sports in the world. Somehow just because its boxing it doesnt help. OK makes sense.

The big difference is bocing is weight restricted. All supplements do is turn 5'6 featherweights into 5'6 lightweights. Is that really an advantage?

Yes its an advantage to be much stronger and faster. Is it not?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! You go from fighting 126 pounders to taller, longer, stronger 135 pounders. Where is the advanatage again???????

So what you two are saying is that adding speed and power by using supplements is bad. OK that makes complete sense to me.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

dmar5143 wrote:

again sooner my friend who are these fast guys..lets see at heavy..faster than tunney ali holmes on foot.or handspeed over tyson patterson ali holmes in the heavies.surely theres gotta be 20 of them for sure..dawson is slick is he slicker than billy conn or willie pastrano..what middle has faster handspeed than robinson or leanord.better relflexes also..there must be at least 30 fighters right..whos got better hand speed or footwork or relexes then pep..the big strong 126 lb divsion which by the way does have a deep division..making a statement out of the blue is one thing..facts eveidence and proof is another.....what 185 pound fighter is stronger than marciano..what 160 pounder in the ring is stronger than fullmer lamotta....since strenth via suplliments plus speed plus reflexes plus advanced or so called advanced training incresases coordination why thats a formular to increase accrate and deadly punching power..what 185 pounder hits harder than marciano what middle hits harder then robinson or ketchel feather in saddler or light guys like zarate gomes oliveries..what 112 pounder hits harder than jimmy wilde...what light fighters are faster than bushy graham or relexes and handspeed over barney ross...if suppliments that do this and fighters of today a huge majority that take them then you would have no problem giving 20 examples of each question....the eveidence in the ring is not there..sorry to say but your therory pertaining to boxing is BS..

If Sooner's proposition had a shred of truth then it would show up in the heavyweight division where weight restrictions don't exist. If that stuff mattered much in boxing we'd have the greatest heavyweight division in history. Instead we have our dismal crop. Case dismissed.

Its only dismal because of the crop in the US not around the rest of the world. Sorry to say the Klits are seriously good. Also I think LL was pretty damn good. You think the guys in the 90's didnt use supplements? Tyson, Holy, the Klits, LL and all of those guys are pretty damn good fighters. You guys need to realize that they are bigger, stronger and hit way harder because of those supplements.

I hate comparing generations. No one will ever win this argument. It almost always ends up with people siding with their own generation.

Modern improvements in technology and knowledge of fitness and nutrition have made athletes across the board (even within the same weight ranges) bigger, faster and stronger. With that said there's no way of knowing who would win hypothetical match ups.

Era vs era and pound for pound are a complete waste of time.

Canvas wrote:

Era vs era and pound for pound are a complete waste of time.

I find it fun and educational to debate it though. I seem to learn more about things through debate.

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

soonermark890 wrote:

dmar5143 wrote:

im on my way to bed..i see.suppliments give better reflexes and speed.realy..does it also make them take a better punch..lets see mosley and green both complained as an excuse they were overtrained..how come the suppliments didnt help them..how can a armstrong pep or a gasper ortega or greb fight over 25 times in one year without suppliments.how come they were not overtrained..im just wondering sooner.mosley also had a nutritionalist cook for the gang..who are these real fast fighters today .with great speed.there should be plenty if they took suppliments.extra fast relexces.they all or most of them should because of suppliments right.or do only certain fighters take them...name me 50 fighters who have this great speed and reflexes...please give me a list of theses wonder vitimins that the fda has approved for the main reason to develope speed..what suppliments are geared towards making you have great relexes and co ordination..whats there names soo we can check on the net where it says take this and your speed increases a lot.ditto relexes..how come we dont see these results in the ring by thousands of fighters if thses suppliments are so great..
surely there should be a suppliment on the market to make you a great puncher..not peds now...vitamin or suppliments..why isnt there a heavyweight that can throw faster punches then ali or holmes tyson or patterson.where is there great speed or footwork that embareses a tunney a ali a holmes..maybe heavys dont take suppliments..im not breaking them on you but the proff is in the pudding..by golly we have superman in the ring today...

.

Are you fucking kidding me Dmar. You really think they dont? Just look at all the other sports in the world. Somehow just because its boxing it doesnt help. OK makes sense.

The big difference is bocing is weight restricted. All supplements do is turn 5'6 featherweights into 5'6 lightweights. Is that really an advantage?

Yes its an advantage to be much stronger and faster. Is it not?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! You go from fighting 126 pounders to taller, longer, stronger 135 pounders. Where is the advanatage again???????

So what you two are saying is that adding speed and power by using supplements is bad. OK that makes complete sense to me.

What I am saying is in boxing when you move up divisions you typically get disadvantaged in height, reach and the kind of shots you have to take. You are arguing (without proof I might add) that additional speed and power are improvements in a vaccum. It just ain't true. You are trading some advantages for other disadvantages. The equation is NOT this one sided thing you are describing.

You are thinking about boxing like it is track and field where one's size has no impact on the competitive challenge. Boxin is NOT man versus clock. Boxing is man versus man. When you move up the size of the foe changes.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

soonermark890 wrote:

dmar5143 wrote:

im on my way to bed..i see.suppliments give better reflexes and speed.realy..does it also make them take a better punch..lets see mosley and green both complained as an excuse they were overtrained..how come the suppliments didnt help them..how can a armstrong pep or a gasper ortega or greb fight over 25 times in one year without suppliments.how come they were not overtrained..im just wondering sooner.mosley also had a nutritionalist cook for the gang..who are these real fast fighters today .with great speed.there should be plenty if they took suppliments.extra fast relexces.they all or most of them should because of suppliments right.or do only certain fighters take them...name me 50 fighters who have this great speed and reflexes...please give me a list of theses wonder vitimins that the fda has approved for the main reason to develope speed..what suppliments are geared towards making you have great relexes and co ordination..whats there names soo we can check on the net where it says take this and your speed increases a lot.ditto relexes..how come we dont see these results in the ring by thousands of fighters if thses suppliments are so great..
surely there should be a suppliment on the market to make you a great puncher..not peds now...vitamin or suppliments..why isnt there a heavyweight that can throw faster punches then ali or holmes tyson or patterson.where is there great speed or footwork that embareses a tunney a ali a holmes..maybe heavys dont take suppliments..im not breaking them on you but the proff is in the pudding..by golly we have superman in the ring today...

.

Are you fucking kidding me Dmar. You really think they dont? Just look at all the other sports in the world. Somehow just because its boxing it doesnt help. OK makes sense.

The big difference is bocing is weight restricted. All supplements do is turn 5'6 featherweights into 5'6 lightweights. Is that really an advantage?

Yes its an advantage to be much stronger and faster. Is it not?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! You go from fighting 126 pounders to taller, longer, stronger 135 pounders. Where is the advanatage again???????

So what you two are saying is that adding speed and power by using supplements is bad. OK that makes complete sense to me.

What I am saying is in boxing when you move up divisions you typically get disadvantaged in height, reach and the kind of shots you have to take. You are arguing (without proof I might add) that additional speed and power are improvements in a vaccum. It just ain't true. You are trading some advantages for other disadvantages. The equation is NOT this one sided thing you are describing.

You are thinking about boxing like it is track and field where one's size has no impact on the competitive challenge. Boxin is NOT man versus clock. Boxing is man versus man. When you move up the size of the foe changes.

What you are saying is that the supplements do nothing for the fighter. What I am saying is that it does a great deal for the fighter. You do not have to weight train as much, or as hard to recieve better results. Its crazy the advances that we have made and you are saying that makes no difference. But it does. Other wise they would not use them. What proof do you need? Every fighter uses this stuff. Pac, Floyd, Khan all of them.

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

dmar5143 wrote:

again sooner my friend who are these fast guys..lets see at heavy..faster than tunney ali holmes on foot.or handspeed over tyson patterson ali holmes in the heavies.surely theres gotta be 20 of them for sure..dawson is slick is he slicker than billy conn or willie pastrano..what middle has faster handspeed than robinson or leanord.better relflexes also..there must be at least 30 fighters right..whos got better hand speed or footwork or relexes then pep..the big strong 126 lb divsion which by the way does have a deep division..making a statement out of the blue is one thing..facts eveidence and proof is another.....what 185 pound fighter is stronger than marciano..what 160 pounder in the ring is stronger than fullmer lamotta....since strenth via suplliments plus speed plus reflexes plus advanced or so called advanced training incresases coordination why thats a formular to increase accrate and deadly punching power..what 185 pounder hits harder than marciano what middle hits harder then robinson or ketchel feather in saddler or light guys like zarate gomes oliveries..what 112 pounder hits harder than jimmy wilde...what light fighters are faster than bushy graham or relexes and handspeed over barney ross...if suppliments that do this and fighters of today a huge majority that take them then you would have no problem giving 20 examples of each question....the eveidence in the ring is not there..sorry to say but your therory pertaining to boxing is BS..

If Sooner's proposition had a shred of truth then it would show up in the heavyweight division where weight restrictions don't exist. If that stuff mattered much in boxing we'd have the greatest heavyweight division in history. Instead we have our dismal crop. Case dismissed.

Its only dismal because of the crop in the US not around the rest of the world. Sorry to say the Klits are seriously good. Also I think LL was pretty damn good. You think the guys in the 90's didnt use supplements? Tyson, Holy, the Klits, LL and all of those guys are pretty damn good fighters. You guys need to realize that they are bigger, stronger and hit way harder because of those supplements.

Like I said, if this were true the heavies would be in a golden era. The proof is in the pudding.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

dmar5143 wrote:

again sooner my friend who are these fast guys..lets see at heavy..faster than tunney ali holmes on foot.or handspeed over tyson patterson ali holmes in the heavies.surely theres gotta be 20 of them for sure..dawson is slick is he slicker than billy conn or willie pastrano..what middle has faster handspeed than robinson or leanord.better relflexes also..there must be at least 30 fighters right..whos got better hand speed or footwork or relexes then pep..the big strong 126 lb divsion which by the way does have a deep division..making a statement out of the blue is one thing..facts eveidence and proof is another.....what 185 pound fighter is stronger than marciano..what 160 pounder in the ring is stronger than fullmer lamotta....since strenth via suplliments plus speed plus reflexes plus advanced or so called advanced training incresases coordination why thats a formular to increase accrate and deadly punching power..what 185 pounder hits harder than marciano what middle hits harder then robinson or ketchel feather in saddler or light guys like zarate gomes oliveries..what 112 pounder hits harder than jimmy wilde...what light fighters are faster than bushy graham or relexes and handspeed over barney ross...if suppliments that do this and fighters of today a huge majority that take them then you would have no problem giving 20 examples of each question....the eveidence in the ring is not there..sorry to say but your therory pertaining to boxing is BS..

If Sooner's proposition had a shred of truth then it would show up in the heavyweight division where weight restrictions don't exist. If that stuff mattered much in boxing we'd have the greatest heavyweight division in history. Instead we have our dismal crop. Case dismissed.

Its only dismal because of the crop in the US not around the rest of the world. Sorry to say the Klits are seriously good. Also I think LL was pretty damn good. You think the guys in the 90's didnt use supplements? Tyson, Holy, the Klits, LL and all of those guys are pretty damn good fighters. You guys need to realize that they are bigger, stronger and hit way harder because of those supplements.

Like I said, if this were true the heavies would be in a golden era. The proof is in the pudding.

They are they are just in the NFL. And they are much larger than any era in HW history. LOL

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

soonermark890 wrote:

dmar5143 wrote:

im on my way to bed..i see.suppliments give better reflexes and speed.realy..does it also make them take a better punch..lets see mosley and green both complained as an excuse they were overtrained..how come the suppliments didnt help them..how can a armstrong pep or a gasper ortega or greb fight over 25 times in one year without suppliments.how come they were not overtrained..im just wondering sooner.mosley also had a nutritionalist cook for the gang..who are these real fast fighters today .with great speed.there should be plenty if they took suppliments.extra fast relexces.they all or most of them should because of suppliments right.or do only certain fighters take them...name me 50 fighters who have this great speed and reflexes...please give me a list of theses wonder vitimins that the fda has approved for the main reason to develope speed..what suppliments are geared towards making you have great relexes and co ordination..whats there names soo we can check on the net where it says take this and your speed increases a lot.ditto relexes..how come we dont see these results in the ring by thousands of fighters if thses suppliments are so great..
surely there should be a suppliment on the market to make you a great puncher..not peds now...vitamin or suppliments..why isnt there a heavyweight that can throw faster punches then ali or holmes tyson or patterson.where is there great speed or footwork that embareses a tunney a ali a holmes..maybe heavys dont take suppliments..im not breaking them on you but the proff is in the pudding..by golly we have superman in the ring today...

.

Are you fucking kidding me Dmar. You really think they dont? Just look at all the other sports in the world. Somehow just because its boxing it doesnt help. OK makes sense.

The big difference is bocing is weight restricted. All supplements do is turn 5'6 featherweights into 5'6 lightweights. Is that really an advantage?

Yes its an advantage to be much stronger and faster. Is it not?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! You go from fighting 126 pounders to taller, longer, stronger 135 pounders. Where is the advanatage again???????

So what you two are saying is that adding speed and power by using supplements is bad. OK that makes complete sense to me.

What I am saying is in boxing when you move up divisions you typically get disadvantaged in height, reach and the kind of shots you have to take. You are arguing (without proof I might add) that additional speed and power are improvements in a vaccum. It just ain't true. You are trading some advantages for other disadvantages. The equation is NOT this one sided thing you are describing.

You are thinking about boxing like it is track and field where one's size has no impact on the competitive challenge. Boxin is NOT man versus clock. Boxing is man versus man. When you move up the size of the foe changes.

What you are saying is that the supplements do nothing for the fighter. What I am saying is that it does a great deal for the fighter. You do not have to weight train as much, or as hard to recieve better results. Its crazy the advances that we have made and you are saying that makes no difference. But it does. Other wise they would not use them. What proof do you need? Every fighter uses this stuff. Pac, Floyd, Khan all of them.

Nope, I am NOT saying they do nothing. I am saying they NECESSARILY increase bodyweight which brings a set of disadvantages into play. Like I said, the heavyweight division catastrophe blows the argument out of the water. The weight limits are what you are missing. 126 is 126. The supplaments CANNOT add muscle to a 5'6 fit frame and keep it at 126. It is mathematically impossible. Now are you arguing lightweights aren't on the whole taller, longer and harder hitting than feathers?

so ruiz calvin brock briggs byrd valuez chambers the other 3 russion heavies that wlad beat cris aerola all use them..interesting.what kind of fighter would there be without them..it makes you WHAT lift more weights..are you counting steroiuds as a suppliment..sooner give up the topic..or name thses miracle suppliments.

the nfl has a long history of severe steroid abuse..please..lyle alzado ask him how he died and the mickey mouse testing..gee did all the competitve bodybuilders now stop steroids and now do the miracle suppliment..what suppliment are you taking now sooner.give us the list of its ingrediants..BS

dmar5143 wrote:

so ruiz calvin brock briggs byrd valuez chambers the other 3 russion heavies that wlad beat cris aerola all use them..interesting.what kind of fighter would there be without them..it makes you WHAT lift more weights..are you counting steroiuds as a suppliment..sooner give up the topic..or name thses miracle suppliments.

It makes you stronger. Hell I am on pump fuel, and wheybolic extreme. Also I have taken cutting stacks that cut your weight and add definition to your muscles. Pump Fuel allows you to work out harder by adding in creatine. Also it gives you energy during your workouts so you can go harder. You think that might help when you are going through your boxing workouts? Guys what you are forgetting is suppliments are not just used for lifting.

dmar5143 wrote:

the nfl has a long history of severe steroid abuse..please..lyle alzado ask him how he died and the mickey mouse testing..gee did all the competitve bodybuilders now stop steroids and now do the miracle suppliment..what suppliment are you taking now sooner.give us the list of its ingrediants..BS

Hell no they are on steroids. But man you are talking to a guy who has done both worked out without them and with them. Without them my max bench was 215 after a year and a half. Now, right now I bench 335. Think thats a difference? I weighed 215 when I benched 215 now 225 and I have some fat I need to get rid of. I didnt when I weighed 215.

whats the incredients or is there none on the label..one time when i was 20 at the ymca i put on what i thought was 275..did it 15 reps and had a few more reps left but had no spotter..i then looked and saw it was 300 lbs..the mind works wonders...again what type of heavies would that bunch i named how would they do lol without supplimentsw..