What would have happened if...?

Liddell had to win and defend his title against Shogun, Jardine, Wanderlei, Rampage and Franklin during the 04- 06 run, and fight, Couture, Jeremy Horn, Babalu and Ortiz multiple times from 07 to 10?

The legend of Chuck Liddell might not even exist.

I think the bolded word should be MIGHT

disclaimer: my Chuck fanhood won't allow me to comment in this thread without extreme bias

Chuck Liddell is kind of a myth guys, I hate to say it as a huge Iceman fan.

How much earlier would his chin and defense become an issue if he was fighting strikers? He defended his title against 00000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 knockout punchers during his prime. None. 0. Zero.

Chuck Liddell was on PEDs

gomez1012 wrote:

Chuck Liddell was on PEDs

Beer and hotdogs, same PEDs as Babe Ruth.

hahahahahahhahahahahaha


Nice.



Look, I've never been one to talk too much about the way Pride and the UFC protected their champions in the past. The same arguments that go against Liddell ultimately are circular and destroy the other LHW goat contenders, of which there are only really three of them in my mind;

Chuck Liddell, Tito Ortiz and Wanderlei Silva.


Ortiz is oft criticized for ducking Liddell. There may be a lot of validity to that. Another criticism is he got an easy ride during his time as champion, and with a title defense over Elvis out there there is some small validity to that. However I think Ortiz takes too much heat over this. Future champion at MW or not, Evan Tanner was a highly regarded top five light heavy weight contender when Ortiz destroyed him. Matyushenko is largely unknown but that was another great top ten win, certainly as good as a win over Babalu or Jeremy Horn. The same is true of Yuki Kondo. Another awesome top ten win at the time. And I know everyone tries their hardest to retcon this win off his record by arbitrarily making Wanderlei's prime to start the day after the fight, but Ortiz beat Wanderlei Silva, who was just as dangerous then as he was at any time in his career, and he beat him fair and square.

Wanderlei Silva is criticized for being ran the fuck out of the UFC by Ortiz and Belfort(a guy everyone else at the top seemed to be able to beat) and piling up win after win over Japanese Judo fighters and an overmatched Sakuraba. There is validity to both of those as well. Also Wandy gets criticism for getting a few gift decisions, like the one against Arona that goes unnoticed now, but was pretty bad at the time.



IMO, when these fighters were all at their peaks I don't think Wanderlei would have ever beat Ortiz in the UFC. I don't think Ortiz would have ever beat Liddell in the UFC, and I just don't know who would really have won between Liddell and Wanderlei, but Liddell does get the advantage based on their classic showdown in 2007. Which in retrospect was Liddell's swansong and a brutal fight where both fighters left a good portion of whatever they had left in the cage.

good lordy wolf maybe its just me but as of late seems like your whole agenda has been coddling tito ortiz and trying to poke as many holes in chucks legacy as possible

Well I opened up my Ortiz comments with ;

Quote :

Ortiz is oft criticized for ducking Liddell. There may be a lot of validity to that.

Still, if you have read any of my stuff, I can understand how you feel like that. But Ortiz career is unjustly devalued, and unfortunately Liddell's maybe slightly overrated.


Also bird, at the same time we could say your agenda is to poke as many holes in Tito's legacy and prop up Ken's and Frank's. You know there is a real argument to the idea that Frank retired to duck a second fight with Ortiz.

Wolf, not trying to be rude, but do you know about the ongoings of SEG and Frank Shamrocks contract????

They could not afford him, plain and simple

absolutely no truth to the rumor you just stated

Even before the match, it was known that this would be Shamrock’s last fight with the organization. With few outlets still carrying the pay-per-views, money was scarce and the company wasn’t going to be able to pay him what he was contracted for. An agreement was made that should he win, because they were going to breach, if he publicly announced his retirement in the ring and that he was vacating his title, they would release claims on him and allow him to fight elsewhere


want to rethink that statement??????

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=dm-ufctwentytwo042409

As he announced his retirement and vacated the title, owner Bob Meyrowitz and announcer Jeff Blatnick both praised him as the greatest competitor in the history of the UFC. In his 10 previous matches, he had nine wins and one draw (some records of Shamrock’s career have him at 8-0-1 at the time, but he won a fight in Texas that is often overlooked). Every win was different. All but one win was against someone who outweighed him. Three of his wins were against people who outweighed him by 20 pounds or more

and wolf, i dont try to poke holes in titos legacy, why say that guys im a huge fan of got beat by a shitty fighter

i simply call it like i see it

bird can I ask you to restate the last post, hard to tell what you mean?

ya no prob, my point is I know Tito was a great fighter, why would i try to poke holes in a guy if he has beaten some of my favorite fighters.

that make sense?

if Tito sucks than what does taht mean about Bohlander and Mezger, get what I mean, they were all upper echelon fighters, just imo, Frank beats Tito everytime, and if Frank and Guy could beat him I dont see how a prime Ken couldnt have beat him

This thread only proves that Chuck is the luckiest guy to fight in MMA. I now think Johnny Drama would have KO'd him on Entourage if they would have scrapped.

Chuck was always able to land the big punch, now the guys are faster and bigger then him and he just does not have that luxury and of landing that big haymaker, a few times he hit Franklin and that old power did not appear. He was a great fighter for his day and what his day was, it was a sad moment and I am not a Chuck fan, but I sat in front of the computer and looked at the death of a career with that Franklin right, and subsequent uneccesary punches.