Frank Mir to 205?

I'm with LA on this one.

Mir > Werdum. I'm just saying.

not as far as Jiu Jitsu. If they were rolling Werdum would have his way with Mir and Tap him repeatedly. As far as overall mma, yea Mir is better.

Werdum would destroy Frank Mir.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Well, Mir showed awesome striking in flattening Kongo, but then showed a complete lapse in clinch defense and strategy with Carwin. Mir is a puzzle actually Bigs. No idea what to make of him.

I think I over valued him after the Kongo fight. I thought the new improved hard hitting good kickboxing muscle Mir was really coming around. Then he gets embarrassed by Shane and now has completely turned an about face and wants to drop 65+ fucking pounds. Ya, I turned my back back on him. At worst I was right all along.

Well I think he's frustrated because he's inbetween weight classes. Probably the same frustration that Cain and JDS are about the feel. Unfortunately, IMO anyway, the HW division's future is for guys who cut to make 265...at least if they plan on holding the belt. I was appalled by Mir's lack of activity in the clinch against Carwin also. It almost seemed like he was hoping the ref would separate them or something. Maybe Frank just didn't know what to do against a guy the size of Carwin.

I just think people discredit him because they don't like him and I get tired of hearing that shit. (being that I'm a fan)

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Werdum would destroy Frank Mir.

LOL you wouldn't bet 1 Monopoly dollar on that. Mir all the way. Not only that but Mir is a tougher matchup for just about anyone. Just a better fighter.

Mir worked his way up the HW rankings for good reason. The win over a sick Nog and Kongo were great. He was lucky the way the 1st Brock fight was reffed and how inexperienced Brock was. But the 205 division is better than the 265 one. Mir would be about the same size as the top LHWs, maybe a little bigger, but he'd have no advantage besides his BJJ which would mean very little because he has no wrestling. He doesn't have the speed to hang Forrest let alone guys like Machida, Rashad, and Shogun.

Werdum sucks. His life will be over after Fedor decapitates him.

I;d take Mir over Werdum. Werdum's hands suck. Mir has power and would catch him. If it went to the ground, it'd probably go to whoever is on top.

Werdum >>>> Mir as far as pure BJJ though.

Tough call for mir right now. he needs to come up with something and fast. he isnt getting any younger or better with age.

I think the future will have a ressurection of the super LHW HW champion. There is a reason most of the 90s and 2000s had dominant HWs that could cut down. Coleman, Big Nog, Randy, CC, Fedor ect.

We've seen Fedor flatten fighters that are 30+ pounds bigger than he is in 4 straight fights, and we've seen Lesnar struggle with Couture until the glass chin/slow head movement factor caught up with Couture.

All this talk of "moves like a lightweight!" and his supposed cardio are premature. We've never seen one of these super HWs(all two of them) fight any good smaller fighter that weren't Mir or Couture. Not the best control group IMO. Cole Konrad looked like shit against a much smaller fighter.

I think there is a reason why HW in boxing and wrestling spans such wide gaps. I don't see MMA as being any different.

Yea Mir def has better boxing but trust me, he would want no part of Werdum on the ground. Werdum is pretty underrated himself. His grappling makes him a threat to anyone, except Fedor.

Mir would have a lot of trouble with Werdum, hell Mir would probably get beat by Big Foot

tolivendiewithLA wrote:

Mir would have a lot of trouble with Werdum, hell Mir would probably get beat by Big Foot

He is just lucky Kimbo isn't around to kick his ass.

I can't comfortably say that. Werdum has wins over Alex and Overeem, which I'll take over a green Lesnar and Kongo. I think we can all agree Nog looked like dick for a variety of reasons against Mir and can't be counted as a legitimate common opponent.

Mir's best chance is to land a KO strike. Mir has never shown solid cardio deep into fights while Werdum has and Werdum as a grappler is about 200 times better. The only fighter to KO Werdum is JDS, who now we know is one of the best fighters in the world. This with having fights with Overeem, Alex, Sergei, Gonzaga(2x), Kyle and Vera who are all solid strikers close to or better than Mir.

Matchup wise this isn't a great fight for Mir.

IMO Mir's record is inferior to Werdum's. But their close. I can respect your opinion. Interesting debate.

fair enough, I can accept that

I'm starting to think maybe Staph wasn't the only thing at work with Minotauro in that fight. He hasn't exactly looked stellar even since then. Yeah he was faster than Randy Couture but he couldn't do anything even with the knock downs and the perrenial top position. Then he got blasted by Cain who all of a sudden is the second fastest striker in the division. I think we may have to chalk that fight up to a legit win for Mir at this point since Minotauro hasn't impressed since.

I always have thought it was legit for Mir and that if Nog was really injuried he should have never fought.

Well if Nog is shot even in other fights then Nog was sick, had a blown knee, and was shot anyway. That makes the win look even less valid. Still, his boxing and foot work was much crisper than in the past. At this point I'd say Mir is more dangerous as a striker.

He isnt a scary striker in my book although his striking has improved. I dont think guys like JDS, Cain, Brock or Carwin would go into a fight fearing Mir knocking them out. I believe they would still fear his ground game the most. BTW I think Mir beats Nog in a rematch also.

Because Nog is a shell or his former self. 2005 and Nog beats him ruthlessly.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Because Nog is a shell or his former self. 2005 and Nog beats him ruthlessly.

No arguement hear at all. Damn though 2005 was 5 years ago LOL.

I think what it is is Nogueira has just become a victim of the same result that often comes to pass with "durable" fighters. Durable is just another word for steep drop offs and short careers. Nogueira has had a decently long career now, and definitely has more fights than most guys. However like Chuck Liddell and Forrest Griffin even, we're starting to see a huge decline all at once. Chuck went from Knocking Tito out brutally to getting napped 4 out of 5 fights in a row, most of which in vicious fashion. Forrest went from hanging 5 rounds with Rampage to getting beaten embarrassingly by an Anderson Silva backpedalling jab.

I honestly believe some of the wars Minotauro has been in have taken years off his life and his career. For fucks sakes the guy looks like he's 50 years old.

50 Ludo ur being nice that fucker looks like he has been died for a year or two LOL.

Yeah I was being nice but it's really fucked up because he's only 34!